AI Agents That Matter | Hacker News Reader

AI Agents That Matter

aisnakeoil.com

35 pointsrandomwalker10 comments

> The term agent has been used by AI researchers without a formal definition [1]

> [1] In traditional AI, agents are defined entities that perceive and act upon their environment, but that definition is less useful in the LLM era — even a thermostat would qualify as an agent under that definition.

I'm a huge believer in the power of agents, but this kind of complete ignorance of the history of AI gets frustrating. This statement belies a gross misunderstanding of how simple agents have been viewed.

If you're serious about agents then Minsky's The Society of the Mind should be on your desk. From the opening chapter:

> We want to explain intelligence as a combination of simpler things. This means that we must be sure to check, at every step, that none of our agents is, itself, intelligent... Accordingly, whenever we find that an agent has to do anything complicated, we'll replace it with a subsociety of agents that do simpler things.

Instead this write up completely ignores the logic of one of the seminal writings on this topic (and it's okay to disagree with Minsky, I sure do, but you need to at least acknowledge this) and immediately thinks the future of agents must be immensely complex.

Automatic thermostats existed in the early days of research on agents, and the key to a thermostat being an agent is it's ability to communicate with other agents automatically, and collectively perform complex actions.

This sounds awfully similar to actors in Actor Based Programming.

Side note, are there other similarly seminal books you can recommend on AI?

I worked on agent-based systems >20 years ago, including large research projects and standardisation/interoperability work.

Ultimately, that effort failed but I don’t see any awareness of that considerable volume of work reflected in today’s use of the word “agent”. If nothing else, there was a lot of work on the use-cases and human factors.

It’s just a bit disheartening to know that so much work, by hundreds of researchers (at least), over 10+ years, has just slipped into irrelevance

It was opined on HN the other day, but operations research (aka data science), the annals of human process mapping (aka process automation), and control theory (outside ME/hardware) all suffer similarly.

A field retitles itself, and suddenly no one is aware of the still-applicable research from before the name change.

Which is probably more broadly to say that no modern courses teach surveys of previous material.

You can agree or disagree, as you say, with SoM (Marvin was my undergrad advisor so my opinions are...complex) but that book can in many ways be considered a summation of decades of research in the field. To reinforce your point: even if you disagree with modeling cognition as a set of competing/cooperating "agents", there's enormous ahistorism in the paper. Which, TBF, is quite common in CS.

Also the thermostat has been extremely usefully used in an exploration of agency by Daniel Dennett, in his famous "The Intentional Stance"

(I accidentally typed "Intensional Stance" which really would be a fascinating book to read!)

Agentic behavior is instilled in RLHF'd models [0, 1]. In this paper, "agency" is defined in terms of the LLM thinking like it's a person (agent) with consistent thoughts (outputs). The problem is this also severely limits the LLM's ability to break out from the norm and explore unknown paths (thoughts).

Most (if not all) agent frameworks use GPT-4, Claude Opus, etc. models which are heavily RLHF'd.

[0]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.05587 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40702617

Agents have been recast as "Agentic Workflows". This is the trendy new term. The problem is that it's a complex solution and not a place to start. Newcomers read an article/blog/post/paper and get fixated on this solution.

Non-technical stakeholders also get fixated on this idea of AI agents autonomously working together. Can we save money? Perhaps even replace some people? Without a solid base of reality and a wide imagination, we can see how that conclusion can be drawn.

While agents may have a place, we in the AI space will fall into a credibility loop if this is pushed as the answer. There are plenty of wins for an organization with no "AI" in place. Retrieval Augmented Generation (RAG) is hard in it's own right but there is a reasonable path to success now.

Otherwise, expect disappointment. Then the whole space will be lumped together as a failure.

Ironically, my take is "agentic workflows" are being pushed by the big globally integrated consulting shops in order to justify why a solution that only solves part of the task should still be funded.

Aka 'If you really understood this, you'd understand we build this in terms of smaller agents. That's why you should pay us big money to build the technically simplest part of this use case...'

This is indeed always a factor.

> The North Star of this field is to build assistants like Siri or Alexa and get them to actually work — handle complex tasks, accurately interpret users’ requests, and perform reliably.

Controversial opinion there, especially given the hand tuning that those two go through

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