Framework Laptop 16, six months later | Hacker News Reader

Framework Laptop 16, six months later

theverge.com

48 pointsrpgbr52 comments

Framework and System76 are both doing great work. Glad they are able to make their businesses thrive, pay their employees and actually deliver a new age of “Linux on the laptop“.

Still looking forward to buying a Framework to put next to my System76

Is a six out of ten laptop “great work”? What they’re doing is very difficult, no doubt, and I’m glad they’re attempting it, but it sounds like it amounts to quite an irritating machine right now. Certainly no way I’d consider it with a review like that.

I'm pretty happy with the 13-inch model. It sounds like the 16-inch has problems that I'm not seeing on mine.

My only complaints are ones that don't matter too much for me: battery life isn't great (5-6 hours) but I rarely need it to be, and it does get hot when playing games (but I usually do that on my PC).

Framework 15 with Linux, very few problems[0]. (Review is 16 with windows).

[0] the USB multimonitor used to suck but I think a popOS revision fixed that, and the internal microphone makes unusably bad audio.

What framework 15, there's only the 13 inch and 16 inch model, no?

13 inch, sorry posting from phone

Apropos of the implication that the score matters: the reviewer is a Windows user

I have none of their hardware, but PopOS is, imho, the low-key best distro out there. It is the only one I have used that "just works" on older macbooks (9+ years old).

Too bad they are not uniting forces now.

I own a 12th gen framework and even though Linux works well on it, it won't save you from the occasional tinkering : How do I configure firefox to have it work well with the GPU ? Should I change the power-management software for something better ? Etc. Linux support is ok but it's not first class as I thought it would be. System76 clients seems to have better tuned software but the hardware seems less good. I wouldn't know.

If there was a premium option for Framework with PopOS + System76 support I would have paid for it, and I suspect I wouldn't be the only one.

For what it’s worth, the AMD 13” Framework laptop is the best Linux laptop I’ve ever had (running Ubuntu 22.04 LTS). It’s cool, quiet, and very responsive. I absolutely love it.

Would you happen to have the Ryzen 5 cpu or use Linux? (I "struggle" with battery life on my R7/Win10, getting "only" around 6 hours. Fedora 40 also seems to provide similar battery life.)

Don't know about framework, but I bought a USB multimeter to test power draw of my EliteBook. Most surprising finding was that the keyboard backlight draws an insane 2W-2.5W. That's about as much as the Ryzen 7840HS inside that laptop draws during idle.

Thank you, I'm aware of that and keep my backlight off until the evening. Unfortunately that's not enough, but it's an important point to note!

This is a peculiarity of the EliteBook keyboard though, my ThinkPad's kbd backlight had much lower wattage.

Does the lid wobble when you use it though?

Not OP, but mine does not. It actually has the firmest lid of any non-MacBook laptop I've used.

> For a split second, I thought you were running the vacuum in the living room,” she told me. Just browsing a few websites with the laptop plugged in was enough to cross 70°C

That sounds not awesome…

I've never had the fans that loud in mine. I intentionally don't have a dGPU, because I have no need for it. The cooling is fine on the base unit with APU only.

The CPU temp can get high, but that is expected for these chips. They will run up to max temps and throttle to maintain peak performance under the current conditions.

90% of the blame here lies on the modern bloated web and poor software design in general, not the Framework laptop hardware design.

My work laptop sounds like a vacuum just from opening Teams/Edge at the same time, without even doing any active work.

Not true in my opinion. I've used older Intel (8th gen or even 5th gen) or Amd (5000 series) laptops staying 100% silent under moderate load and perfectly capable of browsing the web. Now, it's not criticism of Framework alone, I don't even own it, but a broader criticism of many modern laptops getting hot and loud, especially on Windows without further tweaks. Some, not all, models run better on Linux or on Windows with some tricks, like disabling boost.

I should have clarified that my work laptop is not a Framework laptop.

Yeah I have a framework 13 and by far my biggest complaint is the extreme heat it runs on by default. I know I will never be buying another framework laptop.

Mine overheats and throttles to 200MHz (yes… MHz), I no longer use it and I have to throttle the cpu in windows for it to be functional so it doesn’t overheat from web browsing and become nonfunctional.

I haven't personally tried it but I understand that it shouldn't be too difficult to 'undervolt' it, possibly even from user space.

> The product gave me multiple Blue Screens of Death

Sounds suspiciously like "I didn't assemble my laptop correctly, something is slightly loose somewhere".

As a whole, how many people buy a Framework laptop and put Windows on it, of all things? I can't imagine that's more than 10%.

This simple poll gives windows at 25% https://community.frame.work/t/a-simple-poll-linux-or-window... it's not very scientific, but it's more than your or my imagination can dream up.

At a previous job in IT we got ~200 Dell Latitude 5440 laptops, several of them gave us bluescreens during setup or during normal (Office 365 and web browsing) use, other laptops (ThinkPads and low to mid-range Acers) and desktops (HP) used by the same users and set up in the same way had none of these issues

So some laptops defintely get random bluescreens more than others, I wouldn't blame the user as a first option, although it is possible the user is at fault

My wishlist for laptops include a thinkpad caliber keyboard, excellent battery life, a great screen, and for the machine to be able to run cool and quiet - either out of the box or through a combination of undervolting and throttling. I wish Framework came a little closer to that ideal. For the time being I put up with macbooks. I'd like to check out ARM thinkpads when Windows ARM is a little more polished, I haven't tried a thinkpad in many years.

Some might find it silly, but using an HHKB over the existing keyboard solves the issues one might have with non-MacBook keyboards.

It solves the bad keyboard issue, and beyond that the HHKB is genuinely an excellent keyboard. As an added bonus is that you can use the HHKB as your desktop keyboard when the laptop is in clamshell mode. If you really want the Thinkpad nipple, there's always the HHKB Studio, too.

Thanks for the recommendation, these look very nice.

Concur. I've been a Mac laptop person since 2009 because it works as expected all the time. That said, I do a good deal of work via the terminal or IDE's that run on both MacOS, Linux, and Windows. That the laptop is a Mac is neither here nor there for me, it's a stable, well built, reliable platform where I can get things done.

Intel T14 Gen5 works fine: with Windows 11 and the 'Best power efficiency' preset, you'll pretty much forget the thing even has a fan.

It reads more like a Windows' review than Framework's.

I wholeheartedly disagree, many of the issues mentioned were regarding build quality.

Which ones? In the order they appear in the article:

- windows did not boot correctly

- windows did not suspend correctly

- varibright software setting

- cooling is not strong enough

- seams with cover plates

Seems much more mixed than "many".

Those 5 issues read as being due to drivers, drivers, AMD software, hardware, and hardware.

Yes Windows was used but it’s Framework’s job to make sure the drivers, software, and hardware all work together well on Windows as Windows is going to be a huge percentage of their customers.

windows in win10 took away control over sleep from manufacturers and subsequently broke it very widely. It's microsoft's fault now.

I've had 20 years of thinkpads, and I really like them, but the FW 13 (intel) is the best laptop I've used, including various work provided MBPs (M2).

There is actual honest-to-goodness linux support and active commitment from the manufacturer to continue supporting it. It's the first time in a long time that I've felt my interests were aligned with those of the laptop manufacturer,.

Is the 13in model suffering the same issues? How about under Linux? Would love a solid machine to replace the Apple MBP but I'm very skeptical.

I have the 15 inch version Framework and it's working great (I'm writing this comment on it now). It's given me a bit of hassle after a few years, mainly the trackpad not always registering a click and the caps lock key sticking a bit when pressed, but otherwise it's been problem-free.

The Intel processor gets a bit too hot for many people's liking if you're doing something that pegs the CPU, but it hasn't bothered me. I'm definitely buying a Framework again (or, more likely, just upgrading the motherboard with the latest AMD).

> I have the 15 inch version Framework and it's working great (I'm writing this comment on it now).

Did you mean 13 or 16?

I think it's 15, the previous generation from the 16 one. I don't remember exactly, though.

In that case very likely the 13" then, there were never any other options beyond the two listed (unless I've been severely mistaken in my search for one before but https://community.frame.work/t/15-laptop/556/222 seems to start from near the 13 launching and resolves in the new 16 being created recently).

The uncertainty of knowing specific about the equipment (and I don't mean in this specific case but that, in general, we all don't know a lot of obvious things about our own devices) is what makes review threads so hard. Particularly when it comes to trying to weigh claims of have have/haven't had ${ISSUE} about things. I wish there was some better balanced way to do reviews than single news style reports, ad hoc discussion, or aggregation of bot reviews. Meta news style reviews maybe?

You're right, the serial is FRANGACP04 which seems to be the 13" one. The problem is that this appears nowhere on the laptop or software (I'm sure it'll be there if I open the chassis up, but I shouldn't need a screwdriver to find my laptop's model).

Are you on a unix? try `dmesg | grep Framework`

I am, I tried lshw but I'll try dmesg too, thank you.

And of course you can easily replace the keyboard and trackpad yourself for about $100.

Yes, but I kind of feel they shouldn't have broken this quickly. Maybe they're under warranty, I'll have to check.

I really recommend the 13 version. The 3:2 screen format (extra vertical space) makes up for the small form factor. It's very nice to have a sturdy, lightweight laptop while also feeling like I have a big screen.

Linux works ok but it's not first class either, it's not tinkering free. That's really my main criticism towards Framework, else it's a great machine.

I love my 13-in for my use cases, but if you're looking to replace a MacBook it depends on what matters to you about the MacBook.

The biggest thing that you'll miss is battery life. I've been running Linux laptops for years so I've kind of gotten used to a 5–6-hour battery life, but I know that that would drive some people crazy.

The other thing from the review that does still apply to my laptop is that it does get hotter than a MacBook would. I don't find that it gets uncomfortably hot unless I'm playing a game, but it definitely does in those cases.

I've experienced none of the other issues described in the review: the build quality is fantastic and my Linux system (Debian) has been very stable.

For me, the 13” AMD Framework laptop is outstanding (running Ubuntu). I previously had the first generation 13” Intel laptop, and it had charging issues and fan noise, but this Ryzen laptop is fast and quiet. I can’t think of any complaints. It feels like a mature laptop. I love the 4:3 screen aspect.

External build quality does look disappointing. I have a 2018 model dell with a plastic case and the screen doesn't flex as much when opened by a corner. It's a 15.6 inch model, but it also has chunkier bezels.

I understand that extra performance is nice in this price class, but I also use the laptop in my lap and I'd like to avoid toasty testies. I still think that a lower power consumption CPU would be the way to go (would have been the bottleneck for the GPU in games?). The current 7840HS model is 14% more performant than the U model (in multithreaded, and around 5% for single threat) at an additional 24W of dissipated power.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5322vs5258/AMD-Ryzen-7-...

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