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Comment by DarkmSparks | Hacker News Reader

Tip of the iceberg imho, I would say this is fairly standard practice in UK law now for everything from police notebooks to dna evidence.

UK legal system stopped being about law and became all about trying to stem the collapse of trust in it a very long time ago.

Now imho there is nothing to trust, every decision some corrupt kafka like show of idiocy.

To see how corrupt they are you only need to look at Rishi soon sacked taking pride in a promise to leave the EHCR if they dont let him deprive a few people of basic human rights in order to demonstrate he is tough on immigration - all while his government gives every illegal immigrant free hotel accomodation and a huge weekly allowance higher to make them come in the first place.

The only thing we are seeing here is yet another public glimpse into why no one I know still in the UK, rich or poor, has any faith in its institutions any more.

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> tough on immigration - all while his government gives every illegal immigrant free hotel accomodation and a huge weekly allowance higher to make them come in the first place.

Ah, a tabloid caricature.

The UK government would love to stop paying for asylum seekers (NB during this status they are not illegal immigrants), but cannot work out a way to do so that is actually legal under ECHR (and the various UN conventions on refugees). While their asylum case is pending, the government does not allow them to work, and they're not even allowed to seek private rented accomodation, so the government is obliged to look after them, which they do in the minimal possible way. Meanwhile their asylum cases drag on, which is good for nobody, but the Home Office is unable to process them at a reasonable speed.

The inability to even secure a working deportation process results in hundreds of thousands of people - humans - being stuck in the system.

No, bringing them in is policy, because they have a shrinking population from the low birth rate and anyone with an inch of ethics left 10 or 15 years ago (I was the last in my school year to do so)

The refugees are not a "policy", they're a crisis which the government has completely failed to deal with.

The Home Office is more and more aggressive every year against legal immigrants. People complain about illegal immigration but fail to actually do anything about it, more from incompetence than anything else.

no, they pretend to be more agressive.

France gives them nothing, which is why they are sat in shanty towns waiting for the boats to bring them accross the channel.

They say they dont want them for the normal people, while doing everything they can to make them want to come. the entire system is corrupt and broken

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption

bright side - people mostly now see it, and they will be eradicated from the UK political landscape in just a few days.

It will unfortunately take at least a generation to rebuild though.

France gives an allowance and health insurance! If you're seeking asylum there. https://domasile.info/en/what-social-rights-do-i-have-as-an-...

I'm willing to bet that this is still the situation in a decade, because there really aren't any other approaches that aren't horrific. There's no sign that Labour understand this or have any plan for improving it.

So then why are they so keen to get to the UK from France?

I suspect because it is easier to work illegally here as the authorities have no interest in preventing it - having lots of people working at below minimum wage keeps inflation down.

Well some are trying to reach the UK, not all. As to why that is, I don't think any of us on HN can confidently state the reason - none of us have surveyed them all and processed the answers. They may be living in poor conditions and (incorrectly) assume the UK is somehow a more welcoming, tolerant place. They may have family, friends or connections in the UK, or they may simply speak English and have some kind of cultural closeness with the country that they don't have with France. However you're showing a bit more about yourself than you might realise, by assuming that they're purely doing it to work illegally.

It should go without saying that moving anywhere is stressful and not something you take lightly. Even if you're comfortable and well off it's not a walk in the park. Those who are crossing the English Channel in boats aren't doing so because they're after an easy life, and god knows they won't get one when they arrive. They've often endured hardships most of us can barely conceive of, and to do all that simply to live outside the system and work illegally? I find it hard to believe.

meanwhile, in the real world

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/mi...

Your point, caller?

that members of the university of oxford disagree with pretty much everything you had said, and have the evidence to back up what they said.

Obviously.

See what you need to do if you want to refute something I said is actually go through each point and refute it. Not dump a link and declare checkmate. Either do that or go away.

Thats exactly what i did. Posted a well researched article by a reasonably well respected educational establishment that disproved every point you tried to make.

Might I suggest you actually read articles like that instead of wandering around claiming no one can be sure of anything then shouting at me to leave my thread when I call you out on obviously never having researched anything you were talking about.

This isnt kindergaten any more, mommy isnt going to read the books to you.

There is one problem in that data. It classifies people by country of birth. Because something like (IIRC) 10% of British citizens live abroad a lot of people who are "British citizens by descent", like my younger daughter, were born abroad. She actually spent more of her childhood in the UK than my older daughter who is "British born".

The Migration Observatory is a great source of data. There is a fascinating one on racial discrimination - lots of unexpected results.

> However you're showing a bit more about yourself than you might realise, by assuming that they're purely doing it to work illegally.

What exactly am i showing about myself? Do tell.

> They may be living in poor conditions and (incorrectly) assume the UK is somehow a more welcoming, tolerant place.

My own experience is that the UK is a very tolerant place for ethnic minorities and,a s far as I can see, for legal immigrants too.

The data supports that very strongly.

> hey may simply speak English and have some kind of cultural closeness with the country that they don't have with France

That is probably true for immigrants from former colonies but they are a small proportion of people entering the country illegally.

sure,

And France does a basic sanity check of any application and rejects it after a day or two.

e.g. pretty sure they are supposed to apply in the first "safe country" they arrive in, everyone who doesn't can just be rejected.

whereas the UK gives them everything indefinately for years.

That's intentional policy, everything else is just a distraction to keep the yokels mostly satiated. No one with more than a double digit IQ could believe sending a few hundred of them at random to Rwanda would be a more effective policy to stop it over just rejecting 99.9999% of applications quickly and efficiently.

> all while his government gives every illegal immigrant free hotel accomodation and a huge weekly allowance higher to make them come in the first place.

People seeking asylum in the UK receive £49.18 per week[1], and get thrown into monstrously low quality accommodation - the current government essentially throws them into prison barges[2].

You really should read something other than tabloids. The reality of the situation is nothing like what you’ve described.

[1] https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get [2] https://theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/14/people-o...

You seem to miss they are coming from countries where the average salary for a 70 hour working week is £50 a month while they lived in a corrugated steal house with no electricity, (mostly because the American proxies blew up their actual houses)

meanwhile, after 6 months of failing to find a job english families are being thrown onto the streets by the 10s of thousands to live in sleeping bags and eat from food banks.

1 in 52 people in London is homeless - the belief is none of them are immigrants.

In that world routinely keeping key evidence from the defence, and far worse, is 100% to be expected.

do some cost of living adjustment with that 50 pounds. and don't forget that they are not allowed to work.

thousands of English families are out of jobs because the UK left the EU, also because the underfunded NHS folks are not getting the care they need and thus many people end up with severe disabilities that would have been manageable. (or they are taking care of someone because there's no help from the system.)

20% of the UK workforce, nearly 9 million employees, were not born in the UK.

leaving the EU has nothing to do with any of the UKs major problems, which are massive national debt, government corruption, complete lack of ethics or values left in any of its institutions, the systematic dismantling of the NHS and a legal system more interested in saving face and protecting wealthy criminal interests than actually practicing justice.

Then wonder why everyone dislikes immigrants getting the lions share of social benefits and having 0% trust in any of the institutions.

people disliking "immigrants getting too much benefits" - while important for politics - doesn't make it true.

cost of brexit is about 2-3% of GDP roughly the same as spending on immigrants. (most of whom pay taxes.)

also worth mentioning is that the aging UK population would be in an even worse state without those workers.

leaving the EU is a perfect symptom of the other problems you listed.

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/impact-brexit- uk-economy-reviewing-evidence

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/th...

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