Pyongyang Says It Will Send Troops to Ukraine Within a Month | Hacker News Reader

Pyongyang Says It Will Send Troops to Ukraine Within a Month

kyivpost.com

30 pointsbelter47 comments

Hmm sending a bunch of underfed brainwashed minions to the edge of the Western world where they can hear and see what the world is really like. If they survive of course. The ones that do return will have a different outlook on life. Wars always end up causing a mixture of cultures.

This could eventually lead to a more open North Korea. Though I'm still hoping for a future sane leader eventually like what happened to the soviets with Gorbachev.

How would they hear and see what the world is like? They won't have access to telecom equipment.

Word gets around awfully fast. Genies can’t be rebottled.

It’ll just take word of mouth at first. Never underestimate the ability for the message to spread fast.

Yeah even Russian troops they interact with will mostly be pissed that they were forced to be there, I imagine.

They will probably send the ones they don't want to survive or return.

Those are usually unreliable.

I believe North Korea already sends its citizens overseas to work in construction. I’m pretty sure the North Korean elites keep pretty much all of the wages for themselves - that’s one of the ways they fund their nuclear program and lavish lifestyles.

>brainwashed minions

Kinda ironic considering which site posted the article + it's not even true. We should all take a step back and remind ourselves that we do not have the universal truth or are immune to "brainwashing".

It's pretty common knowledge that the north koreans are educated to believe that America is an evil empire out to eradicate them and that their leaders are basically god on earth. Similar to the pre-war Japanese indoctrination model. Called Juche. The ideology was purposely designed to keep the population under control.

If that's not brainwashing I don't know what is.

Also, North Koreans have no access to internet or non-state-sanctioned information. If the border ever opens that will be a huge problem I bet.

Pretty true except for the god part, no? America did kill some 10% of their civilians (in addition to their troops) and flatten the entire country, and now sanction the country and call it evil etc.

> Pretty true except for the god part, no?

No. America is not an evil empire trying to eradicate North Korea. At most, America wants to defend one of its closest allies, South Korea, from its belligerent dictator-led neighbor to the north.

> America did kill some 10% of their civilians (in addition to their troops) and flatten the entire country

That was over 70 years ago now, it does not reflect any sort of modern American foreign policy and hasn’t for decades.

> and now sanction the country and call it evil etc.

This is unfortunately inevitable when the country is led by a dictator who rattles his saber, continuously threatens to develop and unleash nuclear weapons on South Korea and Japan, and overall acts as bellicose and belligerent as possible.

If a country decimated your population, razed your entire country, and is conducting economic warfare on you while undermining you politically, you would consider that country evil. They can make up all the justifications they want but there's no question you would still view that country as evil.

That's fair from the perspective of a North Korean citizen; I agree that it makes sense for them to see the US as an evil country. But you and I aren't North Korean citizens, so we have the advantage of a broader perspective. We know why the US sanctions and undermines North Korea.

Yeah, my point being calling it brainwashing is a huge stretch. It's just the natural worldview that will develop from all these factors.

I gotcha, I mistakenly thought you were arguing a different position. Sorry for being quarrelsome.

> It's pretty common knowledge that the north koreans are educated to believe that America is an evil empire out to eradicate them and that their leaders are basically god on earth. Similar to the pre-war Japanese indoctrination model. Called Juche. The ideology was purposely designed to keep the population under control.

I think you are taking this "knowledge" at face value too much. The reality of the situation could be that most people don't give a shit and just go along with the local village leaders, who often don't give a shit either. As long as they get to drink some alcohol every weekend who cares.

> north koreans are educated

It's a big assumption to assume that North Korean mass education works that well. If they can't even get everybody to read normal books, how would they get everybody to believe crazy shit about America to the point that most people would actually sacrifice their life.

> If that's not brainwashing I don't know what is.

I agree with you though. The government of North Korea aims to brainwash their citizens, to have a world-view where they prioritize the goals of the government over other things, but it's probably not as effective as people think.

> America is an evil empire

This is objectively not true. I don't know much about the world, but I am confident that America is better than the others. That is the mindset I keep as a good citizen.

> bunch of underfed brainwashed minions

Some humans are not humans for you because they was born in a different country? Do you think that you are more human than an average human of North Korea?

> a bunch of underfed brainwashed minions

That's pretty much what the Americans thought of Vietnamese. Never underestimate your enemy. Else, you might be evacuating from an embassy building rooftop!

Not sure how realistic this actually is.

NK prides itself on keeping its citizens as isolated as possible from the outside world.

If stationed in the Ukraine then they’re going to pick up an awful amount of information that will shake their worldview and I’d have thought making their reintegration back to the motherland exceptionally problematical at best.

Even the Russians will happily have fun with their NK “chums” shattering everything they’ve been taught - because, why not?

The DPRK is already known to loan out its citizens abroad to do work, earning foreign currency that will be garnished by the state, effectively treating them something like slaves. This doesn't seem all that different.

NK has embassies in a bunch of countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diplomatic_missions_of...

May be a feature for SK. Send aid to kill two birds with one stone?

Meanwhile China is mostly just enjoying the show.

Ready to snatch Manchuria, when Russia will be at its weakest.

Can't find a single other source that claims this, is it real?

Well, Fox quotes the Pentagon as talking like North Korea is at least considering it. (I know, that's not quite the same thing.)

https://www.foxnews.com/world/pentagon-threatens-north-korea...

Here's a detailed fact check:

>Fact check: North Korea has not announced plans to send troops to Ukraine — yet

>While Russia and DPRK are boosting military ties, reports that Pyongyang said it will send troops within month are false

https://www.nknews.org/2024/06/fact-check-north-korea-has-no...

There's just a sliver of land where North Korea and Russia share a border but it could unfortunately mean a lot for Russia's war with Ukraine.

Putin gets more boots on the ground and could potentially lessen the number of dead Russians to explain back home. Kim has more than enough boots to spare and gets a steady supply of resources for his resource-starved country, eg. food and raw manufacturing materials.

Two pariah states pooling their resources. Goes along with the Iranian tech Russia has been using so far.

Let's see. Putin doesn't have enough ammunition. He doesn't have enough tanks. He doesn't have enough troops. So he's importing ammunition, importing troops, and pulling tanks from the 1970s out of storage.

He could impose a conscription, but he hasn't. I suspect he can't - not without causing pushback. And he doesn't want that, because once the pushback starts, it may not stop...

So I think Putin is maxed out. This may not be as much as he can get out of Russia, but it's as much as he dares.

He doesn't need to formally impose a conscription when military commisariats can effectively kidnap people and the propaganda can silence anyone who complains.

What happens often is that they send notices, "Please arrive at the military commisariat building for the update of your personal data." Then, when the person arrives, "please sign here, or you will not be able to leave," on a notice to undergo a medical checkup by military medics. The medics ignore diseases and say "you are ready to serve" even when documents from state-funded hospitals are presented, proving the opposite.

My own story: I live in the Philippines since March 7, 2022. According to Russian laws, just before 6 months of staying abroad, or before the planned trip that is expected to take more than 6 months, one must submit documents that prove that, and therefore, according to the Russian constitution, that one must not be counted for the purpose of recruiting into the army. I asked the local government officers for a certificate of residence and got it, albeit not confirming the initial period of my stay; they could only confirm the period since May 9, 2022 with their records. I also had a stamp in my passport confirming the date when I left. I submitted scans of both documents through the government portal, only to get, effectively, this in response:

"According to our records, you are still in Russia. If this is not true, please come to the military commissariat closest to your registered address in Russia and submit documents in person. You have two days to do that."

I didn't go there; therefore, my request was declined in the end, and they still claim the right to call me at any time for military service.

It is not possible to go from the Philippines to Russia, given only two days, simply because there is no such flight. Also, it is not possible (as in: every postal service refuses to accept it) to send any postal mail from the Philippines to Russia, due to sanctions, so I cannot avail of the option to send these documents by registered post.

Yes I understand that I must be jailed for this post. That's why the anonymous account.

Stay free, friend.

But I wonder: How many people does he gain by this kind of thing? Thousands would not be enough. He needs hundreds of thousands.

Why would you go back to Russia? I would run as far away from it as possible and seek citizenship of a small island nation, or even the Philippines. Look what Pavel Durov did. He's anything but stupid.

I wouldn't go back; this is mentioned only to demonstrate that the requirements were not even possible to comply with.

Please also consider the cost of obtaining a citizenship of a different country. It would take me more than 10 years to earn the necessary amount of money, and my passport expires in 5 years.

I would love to share your enthusiasm but I can't. Russia has restarted their war industry, they have enough resources to build more modern military hardware. Everybody has been sending their '70s and '80s stuff into Ukraine in order to replace it with modern equipment (former Warsaw pact, current NATO members and even the US) or earn some dough (DPRK, Iran). At the end of the day it's the dumb shells combined with the drones and the US hardware that made a difference in this war. When Ukraine was left without them, Russia gained the frontline initiative which it still holds. This is why it's imperative to keep a steady flow of military aid to Ukraine.

Interesting times intensifies.

Sounds like a great opportunity to defect.

Not if your family stayed behind...

They wouldn't be the first defectors to take that hit and keep going, and those defectors weren't being used as cannon fodder in a foreign war.

Sounds like literally the worst possible situation to defect. You are in totally foreign country, where you are trivially identified, can't hide and can't reach any other country which might support you. Additionally you are now a soldier who has defected, which obviously is an even worse crime than just defecting.

> can't reach any other country which might support you

Isn't the obvious move here for Ukraine to airdrop pamphlets saying they'll warmly accept any defecting North Koreans?

I think you have enormous misconceptions about how war functions.

>Ukraine to airdrop pamphlets

Ukraine is currently not in a position to airdrop anything over anyone for some vanity project. The idea of the Ukraine penetrating Russian air space with the aim of dropping some paper leaflets is just ridiculous.

And even if such a pamphlet gets dropped, a NK soldier miraculously finds it, what is he to do? If he defects, he has multiple days of marching to do to arrive at the Frontline, where any discovery means death, then he has to cross that front line and get to an Ukrainian post without getting shot by either side and explain some Ukrainian guy that he is a NK defector.

The chances are just abysmal and the punishment for discovery are extremely high. It is extremely easy to imagine how this will end for any soldier, doing this legitimately takes mountains of stupidity.

Additionally, the Kim regime is holding your loved ones hostage to torture in case you defect.

Cannon fodder is nice and all, but Putin’s overtures to North Korea might lead South Korea to finally start sending military hardware to Ukraine which would be a game changer, considering S Korea is one of the cheapest and most effective manufacturers of many NATO weapons.

Most South Koreans are apparently against sending weapons. The current president and his administration, who is pro-American/Western alliances was recently rendered a lame duck and his party is likely to lose the next election.

When that happens and the opposition party assumes power, it’s back to becoming adversaries with Japan and probably reducing, if not refraining, from sending further aid to Ukraine (assuming the war is still ongoing). As well as appeasing North Korea and China. How Russia plays into that appeasement will be interesting.

Yes and Russia promising to arm North Korea and support them in any battle may change that calculus very quickly.

It’s really very complicated. There is a sizeable contingent of South Koreans that see North Korea as harmless, misguided brothers and sisters united by common blood. It’s unimaginable to them that their northern brethren would actually act out on their verbal rhetoric and threats.

Many of these same people view modern Japan as a real mortal enemy just waiting to strike. Many of those fancy weapons South Korea develops? They’re just as intended to be pointed at a hypothetical hostile Japan as they are to North Korea.

These people are mostly represented by the current opposition party, who already control the legislative branch, and will likely take the presidency.

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