NOFX to retire after final tour without ever having had a job | Hacker News Reader

NOFX to retire after final tour without ever having had a job

nytimes.com

134 pointsFlatcircle92 comments

"without ever having a job"

First Google Result for "nofx retire":

> The punk group have all got normal jobs, which they will continue to pursue, but are pulling out all the stops for one final tour for their army of fans.

Seems in direct contradiction with this anarchist click bait title.

Their wonderful song, The Death of John Smith, describes the life of a normal man with a "proper job": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGgUt9vNGlo

NOFX's version of a job is better described by "Thank God It's Monday": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22rDfUc9HgA

" I live a 5 day weekend, I gotta a year long holiday, Thank God it's Monday... "

I love this band!!

It's a reference to their music, although a very poorly thought out one. But I don't think the result is entirely fair, as Fat Mike is a record label owner. That's not what one may think when you say "a job", these people are all middle-aged and aren't working the cash register at a Walmart or something like that. A job is a job, but NOFX are far past some idealistic idea of "live off the music, skip college" and whatever else people thought of them.

Please do not smear the good name of anarchism with mass media clickbait practices.

The NYT article says this:

> "Controversies aside — most of which involved drugs, onstage banter taken too far and the unpredictability of both the band and its fans — the members of NOFX managed to do something most people can only dream of: They avoided having a day job for 40 years."

We're going to need some deep investigative journalism to sort this mystery out...

Also, I remember reading when I was young that NOFX quickly abandonned the "drugs/alcohol/sex" ethos and become quite healthy people despite having the opposite branding.

I have no idea if is true or not.

The article talks about how Smelly got his name because of the drugs but has been clean and sober for a long time.

It also mentions how instead of drugs, they do yoga and get massages.

No mention of their current sex life.

It hasn't exactly been a clean path. Fat Mike has been on and off through the years and they never stopped singing about doing drugs. That said I think they are vegetarians and otherwise relatively health conscious.

Indeed. I think many people don't realise how many artists do actually have day jobs as well - it's not always as lucrative as you'd think.

Dexter Holland, the frontman of The Offspring, finally got time to finish his PhD in molecular biology, after they stopped touring.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_Holland

For him it wasn't about money, though.

Milo Aukerman of the Descendents has a PhD in molecular biology - there's a great interview (maybe in the Filmage documentary?!) where he's discussing a conversation with his colleagues who are asking "what did you do at the weekend?" and he replies "Oh, my band was playing Woodstock..." (or something along those lines!)

That's Dr. Holland to you.

Ain't a lot of money in molecular biology these days anyway.

Well, if Dr.Holland would have invented a cure for Covid or a vaccine, there would have been some money I guess.

I'm sure the company would've paid him a small bonus, and kept the 99.9999% of the profits from it for themselves.

I know it kills you, but guess what: There is no "Danny's idea." Everything that comes in here belongs to the agency.

I give you money, you give me ideas.

https://youtu.be/BnNV4_8izkI?si=Ptz0QCr6V01MOMpN&t=57

That isn't what happened to the people who actually did invent them at BioNTech/Moderna.

Greg of Bad Religion I believe also has some sort of PhD.

Interesting, did not know that. Punks seem to like biology it seems ..

"Graffin obtained his PhD in zoology at Cornell University and has lectured courses in natural sciences at both the University of California, Los Angeles and at Cornell University."

They've toured for 40 years, sold 8 million records and have over a million monthly listeners on Spotify. The singer's label has put out many of the big punk bands for the last 30 years. I agree with your point, but this lot are fine.

They are indeed “doing just fine” which I am sure is what you must have been referencing — from one of their most famous songs:

  Buy me a Becks beer
    or pass me the bong
  Gimme some Bushmills
    I'll sing you this song
  Open another
    big box of cheap wine
  We're over 30
    we’re doing just fine

The last time I saw them live it was pushing 40 instead of over 30 and that was nearly a decade ago.

Hahaha, yeah, they're a fun band. I saw them (for the last time, I guess?!) a couple of weeks ago (and oddly in reference to the lyrics, I actually saw them tour Pump Up The Valuum as well). Mike is pushing 60 now!

TS Eliot (poet) worked in a bank

Phillip Glass (composer) was also a plumber, which surprised the London music critic who unwittingly employed him to install a dishwasher

Anthony Trollop was a postal surveyor

Kurt Vonnegut was car dealer

See https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/52293/11-celebrated-arti...

Same goes for hard sciences in academic fields. Cant feed family on physics postdoc pay, goto program or drive a bus. You goto do what you gota do!

"goto" considered harmful, use "gotta" instead

> "without ever having a job"

It's not entirely different from all the successful artists who are living lavish lifestyles (for example many musicians are complete car nuts and own insane cars collection [1]) but sing songs criticizing "money" (even though they have plenty) or criticizing "wall street" (even though most of their savings, in addition to cars and real estate, are at their broker).

I have nothing against money or wealth.

But the irony of a musician or a band criticizing money while flying private is not lost on me.

[1] as an example of such musicians (but not that they necessarily did criticize money), Miles Davis used to run vs Herbie Hancock in the streets in a "Ferrari vs AC Cobra" style. And I love that.

To be fair, I don't think anarchism (at least as espoused by the CNT-FAI et al) suggests that anyone can just sit on the couch without doing anything.

If you want that, may I recommend capitalism?

If your expenses are in USD, 30Y TIPS are above 2% last I saw, so putting 50x your burn rate in those should allow you to sit right back, clip those risk-free coupons, and watch the world go by.

"The Decline" is worth a listen for anyone interested in this band.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_(EP)

Their more recent "the big drag" video is pretty impressive too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT_EtBM06-I

That’s my favorite effort they ever did, apparently it was hell to record because it’s an 18 minute continuous take.

Many of the lyrics became more relevant after 2016.

And remains a solid use of a single jukebox credit.

I love this song and I feel so lucky I was able to see it live at their final Japan show last spring! They come out for an encore like "we're just gonna do one more song" then play for another 20 minutes.

I heard they suck live

For the one who didn't get it. it's the name of an album.

Epic reddit-tier contribution. I was hoping for a lame pun, but a low effort reference without explanation is just as good. Bacon.

Have an upvote, sir.

> a low effort reference without explanation

That's all you get on the free tier. No hours to spare, gotta dev 10x

> Like a show in London in 2000 when Fat Mike, Melvin and El Hefe decided to take ecstasy before going onstage. “Melvin is trying to play the accordion and he can’t,” Fat Mike said, laughing. “It was our biggest show and we took the punk way out. We were all dying laughing.”

> “Who cares?” he added. “Why NOFX are so good is because we’re having a better time than our fans.”

I saw them in Amsterdam. They came on stage and asked the audience "anyone got any pills?". Several baggies rained down on the stage. They went backstage for a bit, and started playing. It was fantastic. But not very musically sound, especially towards the end.

They are super fun live.

Especially compared to the robotic Offspring, who were playing exactly as they did on their albums.

I think being able to sound "the same as their albums" while playing live is a great gesture about how good they are, and how the albums they put out are processed.

Pink Martini can pull off the same trick. They can reproduce their albums live, and without any playback. It shows how unedited their albums are, and how good they are with their instruments and voice.

It's the title of one of their albums ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Heard_They_Suck_Live!!

Haa, they have so many of them, I forgot.

Also, Primus sucks

I spoke with Mike before one of his last shows. I told him that I head they they suck live. He told me they got better.

https://archive.md/YbKB3

Fun fact:

Fat Mike once owned this swanky house in San Francisco [1]. Not too bad for “not having a job!”

Also, the dude founded and ran Fat Wreck Chords in 1990! He continues to run it with his partner to this day [2].

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/sf-home-punk-rock-...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Wreck_Chords

He's going to be spending his golden years in Mattersville

He seems to be an absolutely terrible human being [0] and absolutely desperate to appear edgy and extreme, which I could maybe tolerate if his music was any good, which it isn't.

0: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/mar/29/fat-mike-nofx-...

How fortunate for you that his moral character is reflected in the quality of his art.

Sarcasm aside, this is a peculiarly modern fallacy. While fanatics have often attacked or destroyed 'secular' art, the coincidental observation that the cancelled or scapegoated artist 'actually was a bad artist all along' seems to be novel. No article or comment vilifying say Woody Allen or Roman Polanski is complete without a satisfied nod towards their supposed lack of skill. Despite or perhaps because of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It's no longer enough to point out that an artist is a bad person, we must also assume that their work was inferior.

He knows that and he regrets being that way.

  I turn on the TV
  And I don't like what I see
  There's an old punk rocker acting like a jerk
  And that jerk looks a lot like me

From the 2016 song "I Don't Like me Anymore"

Fat Mike is actually a good guy. He's done a lot of shit, but mostly shit you expect from a punk, like this sort of prank (which seems to be the only source for the parent commenter to decide he's a "terrible human being", the sort of hyperbolic, simplistic language you expect from people who are desperate to find something to be outraged about), getting drunk/high on shows, criticizing everything/everyone (just like in his songs) including himself.

A more recent song where he self-deprecates (there's many), "Don't count on me": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS2oFkpsxVo

" Don't count on me, 'cause I'm the worst If I'm there, it'll be a surprise to so many other friends that I'd call first It's not that I don't care, I just don't care very much 'Cause I'm either on the spectrum, or just plain out of touch That's who I am, that's what I do I could change if I wanted to, but I don't "

Anyway, watch the NOFX documentaries (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aa9aIoorJ8&list=PL15C6AE3FA...) and Mike's podcast. He seems to be quite nice and liked by all who know him. Maybe that's biased, but that's the main source I have :).

Here's a Reddit post by someone who is an actual friend of his: https://www.reddit.com/r/nofx/comments/1d2iwzx/my_journey_as...

I have no problem with your impression of Fat Mike, but your only example is flawed. He never actually serve urine to anyone. https://archive.completemusicupdate.com/article/no-one-drank...

That was a double prank. He made it look like he peed on a bottle and then served its contents to some people, but there's a video where you can see how he switches it by a regular bottle last minute.

https://exclaim.ca/music/article/nofxs_fat_mike_comes_clean_...

https://www.punknews.org/article/38407/fat-mike-comes-clean-...

In a quick search can't find the video right now, but I remember watching it years ago.

That’s the thing with old punks. They do not care and have nor cared for decades. Which means they are not necessarily the nicest people around.

Most people who achieve great things or stand out far from their peers are not nice people. It is almost a prerequisite. Musk, Gates, Jobs and pretty much every really successful artist are all monumental assholes.

If you can't seperate the person from the art or achievement you can't really enjoy a lot of things.

nah, this is just lame apologia that normalises being a shitty person

Going through life spending energy on hating others sounds like a misearable time to me. But if you enjoy it have fun.

where did you get the impression that i spend time hating people? I'm saying that you shouldn't normalise being a shitty person "because you have to be shitty to be great". There's tons of amazing artists that are generally known as being all around great people

(I'm not even referring to fat mike here, I have no idea if he's a good person or not)

never thought i'd see "NOFX" here hah. I was skating with the littler brother of one of my friend's girlfriend when he casually said "have you ever heard of NOFX?" and that was that.

I don't really care about the politics but one of my favorite lyrics of all time is from Dig

Camped outside laissez-faire

People understand me there

Don't talk to me, we'll get along just fine

Oh boy, I thank Fat Mike for making possible the Me First and the Gimme Gimmes

My new "feel soo old sentence" is that when I recently asked someone if they'd ever listened to "Me First and the Gimme Gimmes Love Their Country", they replied oh yeah, totally, they used to listen to it all the time ... in elementary school.

Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7g3RuoreRc

I’ve probably listened to this band more than any other. I was born and raised in Los Angeles and grew up on it along with similar bands. I actually ran into Fat Mike totally randomly out in public this past year. I introduced myself, he’s a nice guy and exactly what you’d expect.

Maybe he's changed, but he was real entitled in Seoul back in 2007\08. Guy from the band RUX -- who owned a punk club in hongdae and a tiny DIY record company -- tried bringing him over and he was an elitist princess. I can distinctly remember the slackers were the opposite and they stayed in a hostel popular with the locals. Mike wanted big money and a four star hotel experience. Which I think they eventually got just for him (out of their own pockets). I wouldn't get a job either if I got to jet around the world and stay in baller hotels on somebody's dime.

Pump up the valuum was one of my first punk CDs I listened to, I didn't know the sound was punk at the time yet since I was immersed in my new nu metal phase. I've been punk rock since then.

Being a professional musician is a job.

And they certainly have accountants, lawyers, insurance, agents, financial planners, etc.

Also sounds like everyone else but fat Mike is going to keep working

NOFX is still one of my all time favorite bands. So strange to see them mentioned on hacker news!

You’d be surprised there’s a lot of hardcore kids and metal heads in hacker news too.

About living from band.. last time I spoke with Eyehategod bassist, then these guys live from touring. Most of the year, they are on the wheels. Didn't seem to close to retirement yet \o/ \w/

I say don't drink and drive-- you might spill your drink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X213NnBq0ik

The title assumes being a working musician is not a job? That's pretty insulting. While some seem to coast along, the bulk of them work pretty damn hard.

A “name” band gig like this is a job with almost no job security and a high chance of eventual failure.

Setting rock stars aside, regular working musicians are everywhere, performing, teaching, composing. It’s a job, but building a whole career on workaday activities requires a lot of DIY and resilience.

So long and thanks for all the shoes!

Fucking LEGENDS. My first show. I don't even like them that much but what a run.

I’m sorry but being a musician is a job.

Yeah, NYT butchered that. The actual statement was

> Fat Mike’s main argument — “You are getting into bed with a corporation. You are not an artist. You are an employee.”

He was talking about being an employee, not "having a job". Being signed to a label means that they call the shots, and you record albums when they demand even if you want to tour and you have to write albums that they are happy with.

Also some of the other band members are stated as going to get other jobs.

Maybe it’s a reference to one of their songs? Not really familiar with NOFX (aside from them being the favourite band of some of my favourite bands), but maybe they have a song about jobs or having a job.

I think it's related to how critical they always have been toward labels and being indies, so the relevant song here would be "dinosaurs will die"

> them being the favourite band of some of my favourite bands

This is my new feel soo old sentence :(

Yeah, man, but there's having a job, and there's having a job job. You know what I mean?

sarcasm right?

No not sarcasm, perception.

It comes down to what you mean by "job". As distinct from "work". We all -work- (they certainly do) in the sense that they add value, and are paid for that value.

A "job" though is an indication of who you work for. You might get a job at a bakery, selling buns. You got to work, add value, and are paid by an employer. She decides if you're on the register, or loading the truck, or whatever. You are selling time and she can do (more or less) what she wants either it.

To avoid this lack of personal agency people start their own business. Now "no one tells them what to do". So they don't have a "job" but there's actually more work.

So there's a "job" and there's "work" and they're not the same thing.

The band (correctly) recognised that signing for a label means you are an employee of that label. They may give you some autonomy, but its not all fairies and rainbows - there's a business to feed. So there will be requirements from their side.

Indie bands work a lot more, but they have complete freedom to do whatever however they like. If they serve the customers well, they do well. If they don't, then it reflects in pay this month.

A "job" is when you work for someone else. But when you have autonomy, and do what you love AND make enough to thrive, then you are truly blessed. Its a lot of work, but it doesn't feel like it.

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