Boeing sent two astronauts into space, now it needs to get them home | Hacker News Reader

Boeing sent two astronauts into space, now it needs to get them home

wsj.com

I was thinking about the problems Boeing is having now compared to what problems may have been "in the moment" back when NASA and partners were developing Apollo — problems that are all but forgotten since the climax of the work was of such import.

Obviously the Apollo I fire is not forgotten although I was older before I learned about it — older of course than when I learned that astronauts had walked on the Moon.

YouTube has a trove of "quarterly reports" (and even older material — Manned Spaceflight Reports, for example) that apparently were created as a means of tracking progress and/or setbacks (and money spent?) on the space missions.

As a space nerd since I was quite young, I find these reports somewhat fascinating. (They make interesting "filler material" for my TV app that plays content every day on my home "channel".)

I can't point to a specific report but do recall the odd one talking about a tank rupturing on a pressure test or an engine test-stand being destroyed during an engine run-up.

They paint a picture of a fascinating time when the work was brisk and well-funded — whole facilities being developed, concrete poured, barges built - for this singular goal of ... well, showing up the Soviet Union, I guess.

Some playlists I found (they may not be complete) when quickly searching this morning:

Lots of reports here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDwzqZWIrfza3pcILatnC...

Saturn V Quarterly Reports: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbEPfQne9a3zPJRdBb-HA...

Saturn I/IB Quarterly Reports: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiXem4nUKgcEgQXmr0zy6...

> Obviously the Apollo I fire is not forgotten

Apollo NASA is a main suspect here. I recall reading that long before the fire, NASA had seen that even asbestos burns in a pure oxygen environment. So there were grounds for concern and for engineering investigation.

Not to go down the rabbit hole of assigning blame, but the gains from a pure oxygen environment were of course substantially reduced vehicle pressure. Mercury and Gemini both had used pure oxygen environments with obviously no mishaps.

> Mercury and Gemini both had used pure oxygen environments with obviously no mishaps.

Pure oxygen atmosphere is pretty dangerous. I worked with it at a steel mill where it was a process gas. Oxygen lines had to be "oxygen clean" before put into service. This meant no oil or grease or particulates that could strike a spark if propelled along the line. Also the line had to be sized for a maximum flow velocity or the oxygen would "scarf" the line. Think rapid oxidation like combustion.

I read a fatality report where a pipe fitter descended into an oxygen valve pit and burst into flames. The report speculated that the fitter had some grease on his gloves that spontaneously combusted in the presence of pure oxygen.

I suppose it's less hazardous at reduced pressure, but still not an atmosphere I would want to work in.

A search finds more info at https://www.eiga.eu/uploads/documents/DOC013.pdf which discusses this.

You really have to be made of the right stuff to go to space in something built by Boeing.

Yes including commercial airspace these days...

It would be so funny if they had to evacuate on a Dragon.

It would be on a Dragon Capsule the Starliner is not just having helium problems, it has functional problems that compromise the return to earth mission they are trying to resolve(...I mean manage what this really means NASA has already contacted spaceX) it an announcement will be made tomorrow.

Let's hope cooler heads prevail and Starliner gets sent down empty while a Dragon (or god forbid, a Soyuz) goes up to fetch the two astronauts.

We seriously don't need a repeat of Columbia, much less for the sake of some corporation's pride rather than a premier space agency's.

I wonder if such an evacuation happens what would subsequent relations between NASA and Boeing be. NASA could be rather sensitive to the optics of the events like that...

Likely no change. NASA contract with Boeing because it is politically useful, and will continue to do so as long as Boeing exists, regardless of outcomes, as it will continue to be politically useful. Boeing sponsor a great many politicians to ensure this.

> Now It Needs to Get Them Home

Alive, ideally. Those people who went up in that capsule were extremely brave.

Somebody quipped wouldn't it be funny to return them on a Dragon.

Embarrassing as that is another alternative is Roscosmos if the Dragon is unavailable (i.e. it's required for emergency use).

Asking the Russians would cause national embarrassment so my money's on the former, but this may actually be a case of politics getting in the way, as, had this been 5 years ago the Russians would have been the go-to partners, they still could be if NASA truly followed realpolitik.

Or as the saying goes "cutting your nose off to spite your face" (using a docked Dragon puts those on the station at more risk than just sending up a new Russian Soyuz).

Tldr; This means astronauts may now be at an additional risk because of (inter)national politics.

They're already following realpolitik by keeping coordination between the two countries active.

The problem with Soyuz is that you no longer have a usable escape plan up on the ISS once it's used so it should only be used in a true emergency. If the Boeing module really was bad, better to send up a Dragon and send the Boeing module down unmanned than to use Soyuz.

I wonder how long SpaceX would take to send up another Dragon on short notice.

If you were an astronaut and your mission was scheduled to use Starliner instead of Dragon, would you think:

a. Mission control doesn't care if I live or die

b. Mission control is actively trying to kill me

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