What happens to our breath when we type, tap, scroll | Hacker News Reader

What happens to our breath when we type, tap, scroll

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I've never been more conscious of my breath while computing than when I was playing Subnautica[0], which proffers a (notoriously tense) game loop significantly involving running out of air and coming up for breath. Additionally, I would take swigs of water when my character was getting thirsty. A surprisingly embodied video game.

0. https://unknownworlds.com/subnautica/

When I was playing Subnautica for the first time, several years ago, I got immersed to the point that 1) I really felt like being underwater - my mind was recalling feelings from various swimming pool experiences; and 2) it changed my relationship with water. I found myself having a desire to swim, a kind of pull I don't think I experienced before.

Didn't get that when I picked up Subnautica: Below Zero a few weeks above. I'm guessing it's because I'm now used to the beautiful vistas and underwater gameplay, so the game wasn't such a full-sensory shock to me anymore.

> "a few weeks above"

Guessing you mean "a few weeks later", right?

could also be "ago" in certain languages

Yeah, it was that. Semantic submarine something.

Either way, sounds classy, I like it!

I started playing for the first time a few days ago, and in VR. I've never really looked at any information about the game, so I pretty much went in blind. I'm having an absolute blast. Just this morning I got to watch my rescue ship get blown up, and enjoyed every second of it.

[Spoiler Alert] Subnautica is amazing! I remember the first time I discovered the huge turtle whales - it was such a surreal feeling. The world design of the game does such a good job of offering a guided exploration that feels completely natural. The contours of Subnautica's world guide you into specific areas and every area has something new to offer - it truly feels like exploring another planet.

Moreover, the sense of fear that I felt when I saw a dangerous looking creature was quite stronger than what I have felt playing several 'horror' games.

Unfortunately, I stopped playing when progressing became too dependent on farming and building - two things that I do not like. I would love to play an exploration only version of the game.

> The world design of the game does such a good job of offering a guided exploration that feels completely natural.

I must have been too dense to figure this game out. I gave it like 4-5 hours and couldn’t establish a sense of “ok this is the next goal” sense.

In my opinion, the way Subnautica motivates is players to play is through a natural sense of exploration - it wants you to think, "This is such a cool planet, I want to explore it" and not "What is the most efficient way of making these numbers/progress bars on the screen go up."

I totally understand what you mean though. I passed on Dark Souls on my first try due to the lack of a specific goal but it is my favourite game of all time now.

The first rule of Subnautica: if in doubt, go deeper :).

But yeah, I remember there were a few moments I wasn't exactly sure what I'm supposed to be doing; fortunately, the world was interesting enough to explore that I ended up stumbling on "next steps" at random. Probably as intended - the game doesn't really force you into taking a specific path horizontally; the vertical axis provides a natural progression path. See also: the first paragraph :).

<mild storyline spoiler alert> except if You're in the void just outside the main continent </spoiler>

Oh right. "Warning. Entering ecological dead zone." Wait, what?!

"Unfortunately, I stopped playing when progressing became too dependent on farming and building"

Same for me. The micromanagement of storing stuff needed for new things to build and organizing it all put me off.

There are mods that fix this by allowing you to build things using resources from nearby containers automatically, among other quality of life tweaks. I really wish I had known about them before I finished the game as the endgame would have been a lot better. I probably would have explored more of the base building part of the game.

Still an incredible game.

Oh. I also should have checked for that. Thanks, I will probably give it a second try then.

The game actually does a pretty masterful job of tricking players and convincing them to go way, way overboard in their preparations. The submarine/mobile base and the robotic mining suit aren't even necessary to finish the game. The final levels of the game can actually be finished just by swimming freely with the seaglide. The rare material that's only available in those levels can be picked up as broken pieces laying on the sea floor, and IIRC you only need 6 pieces of it to finish the game.

> The game actually does a pretty masterful job of tricking players and convincing them to go way, way overboard in their preparations.

The serenity of this game, occasionally punctured by jump scares from the deep - yeah, it will do that to you. You better believe I had a goddamn submarine loaded for bear (whatever that means in an almost completely non-violent game) before approaching the final levels.

Below Zero is easier to play with less building, give it a try.

But the land parts are annoying.

That reminds me of playing games like Gran Turismo, where I start leaning left and right depending on how I'm steering in the game. Interesting that you get a similar effect but with your breathing in Subnautica.

There's a moment early in Resident Evil 7 VR where you're up to your neck in water in a tight space. You completely fool yourself, you feel the mass of water on your chest, and you start breathing like you're in a pool.

One of the things you quickly discover when you start meditating is how deeply your breath is connected to your mind and body. You can literally detect a thought forming before it does simply by sensing subtle changes in your breathing. You'll also notice how the most trivial thoughts also have a physical manifestation in your body, e.g., mild tension in your eyelids, or a tingling in your abdomen, etc.

A lot of people in my life who love to meditate teel me that meditation indeed offers a unique perspective on the connection between the mind, body and breath.

So learn it. It is one of life’s greatest secrets.

What the original commenter said is correct, meditation helps you see how thoughts arise in the moment, and with practice you can get to a point where there is very little noise and instead you have a broader view of ideas and your life in general.

It is also calming, for your entire system. Learning to monitor and control your breathing consciously is a serious mental workout. If you have never sat down to practice it, you might surprise yourself as to how much is going on in your own mind and how the wheels and cogs just keep turning.

Do you feel like your professional life is also impacted/improved by it? I know the question is broad but I mean things like level of anxiety, success, financial, etc. Or does it improve your "personal life only"?

Not the prior commentator, but personally it distanced me somewhat from the bullshit of the rat race. For better or worse, I'm less of likely to chase targets that don't matter or that I don't actually give a shit about.

A caveat: my previous employer (a rent-seeking publishing company) used this sort of thing as a trap. Here, have Headspace for free. Here, take this training on how psychological safety and mental health are important in the workplace. Oh, your manager is psychologically abusing his team? That's against our core values - report that to HR right away. Surprise, HR cares but they are impotent; here's the shadow ER rep to hand you your walking papers.

It improves you. For example, being able to handle stress better isn’t useful just in personal life but also professional.

In my experience, complete introvert, it helped me enormously with anxiety. But it did take some work, such as working through emotions that I had bottled up. If you stick to your practice then you will work through it.

Part of me is resisting because people like you push others to do it. I’m somewhat allergic to that kind of evangelism.

Imagine I told you to go to the gym 3x a week or wake up daily at 4:30am. How would you react?

It’s a shame since I might even enjoy mediating. Maybe I try it one day.

That’s a very different suggestion than “try paying attention to your breath for 5-10 mins whenever it’s convenient for you”

I totally get it, I have that same contrarian instinct.

I have to reframe someone telling me "you should do X healthy thing" as "you should look into X healthy thing and see if it interests you/if there's really a good reason to do it", and then if I do my own research/reasoning, sometimes I can get my brain on board.

Basically, I have to trick myself into thinking it's my own idea. Very silly, but hey, it's how I started eating more vegetables and drinking more water, at least.

Under no circumstances should you try meditation! DO NO DO IT! That's an order.

> somewhat allergic to that kind of evangelism

Meditation, or some sort of reflection, may reveal to you that wrapped up in "allergic to evangelism" is an illusion that you received the intended message in the intended way. Or rather, that your reaction isn't necessarily in line with the reality of the intent of what was said. And that your reactions may be limiting you in your growth. You may even figure out ways to gamify your own improvement.

That said, realization is the easy part!! lol, who am I to talk, let alone preach

IMHO, some people who meditate seem to put on an air of superiority about what they experience, as if they assume others don't have these experiences.

Then they go on to blanket it with Oops! I forgot I don't do this! I am so mindful of myself! I am free of judgement!

You can say the same thing about a person that exercises and take care of their physical body. They always inject a sense of superiority when they talk about how much more energy they have etc. Well...what if they are indeed superior?

I've been sedentary and am now pretty active. Without a shadow of a doubt, my quality of life, mental clarity, energy, etc, are all improved relative to my past. Physical fitness is only one axis, and compared to actual athletes I'm a total turd. I only compete against myself and we all have our limitations, but yes, if you improve your fitness along one pretty significant axis, you are superior (all else being equal).

It's important to remember that all else is _not_ equal though. The totality of a human being can't be measured by any one form of aptitude, but most people would be better versions of themselves if they read more, exercised more, had better diet, were more introspective, engaged in some 'spiritual' practice that reinforced humility and charity, etc.

Someone who meditates is probably better than me on that particular axes. I don't seem to have an aptitude or patience for it, at least not yet. Maybe that means I need it all the more. Maybe some day...

I feel like you need to sign up to pretend it has meaning kind of like religion. "Have an open mind baxtr". My best friend has been going to Yoga and then Meditating for 9 years and the bile, misery and garbage that comes out him like a waterfall after a few ales is incredible.

> Imagine I told you to go to the gym 3x a week

I'd say "screw that, I'm not cutting back!"

What about in the cases where less is actually more?

Surely some random HN commenter is not going to become aware of whether you do or do not follow their suggestion on meditation?

Why let them - or rather, allow your imagination of them - have power over your future choices?

I know what you mean. I have a bit of a contrary streak I have to be mindful of that sometimes makes me be less receptive to certain things than I should be.

Meditation and yoga are two practices that I've never managed to make myself try earnestly because of the aesthetics, evangelism, and just a hesitance towards anything that has an air of 'spirituality' that a lot of western practitioners tend to employ.

I don't have a problem doing 'mobility work' and stretching and various exercises to make myself less injury prone, but yoga somehow is just beyond the pale. Our preconceptions are almost even weirder when we're consciously aware that they're probably silly, but abide by them anyway.

I think yoga will always have the spiritual tinge for some people because it among physical exercises disproportionately alters the state of mind.

Yeah I feel you. I meditate but I'm so allergic to anybody telling me anything. Like, I know you have good intentions, but why this call to action? Just state the benefits you get and let me make up my mind whether I want to do it or not.

In my case, I was advised by my cardiologist because of high blood pressure. He said in my case he sees significant correlation with stress so anything that helps me to lower my stress levels will also help me to lower the dose of medication. It works very well for me, but I have no idea if it worked for anyone else. Moreover, I also do it while walking outside, with even better results (like 15-20mm Hg difference before/after).

How do you go through life knowing youre making choices that don't make sense merely because someone told you to do something you had previously wanted to do?

It's absolutely true - that people who meditate love to inform everybody within ear-sight about such things, that is.

It definitely helped me fix my road rage. E.g. getting cut off in traffic would usually cause me to inhale and brace my core, it's not hard to get angry from there, but by recognizing it as primarily a physical reaction, I was able to short circuit the secondary emotional reaction.

> E.g. getting cut off in traffic

What do people from english speaking countries (I guess mostly from US) mean when they say this?

It's such a frequent phrase, but I don't think I ever thought about it as a distinct concept, nor spoke about it as such to any of my friends, and we've all been driving for many years.

You are driving in your lane when suddenly, another driver decides to change lanes right in front of you without signaling or signaling at the last moment. As a result, you are forced to brake or lose your space cushion.

I wonder why it's not a big deal where I live - whether it just doesn't happen to the same extend or such behaviour is more accepted.

I know I wouldn't think twice about it if someone switched lanes and forced me to lightly brake. Having to slam on the brakes would be more noteworthy, but that rarely happens.

I live and drive in the U.S. and the perception of what counts as being “cut off” is regional and correlated with density.

A maneuver that’s perfectly acceptable in NYC can earn you an angry honk in the suburbs. For better or worse, in large swaths of the US people are accustomed to having loads of space on the road and ample time to react to changes in traffic patterns.

New Yorkers would call other people lazy/inefficient drivers. Other people call New Yorkers crazy/aggressive drivers. YMMV.

Broadly it could be called “a breach of driving etiquette.”

If you are traveling straight in your lane at a steady speed, and somebody enters your right-of-way and forces you to brake or steer away from your intended path, that person is said to have cut you off.

How do I get started meditating? Any sources or books?

1. sit down somewhere, a relatively quiet and dark place is nice but you can do it wherever, maybe set a timer, maybe don't

2. close your eyes, pay attention to your breath

3. when thoughts appear in your mind, note them but attempt to keep your attention on your breath, not on your thoughts

4. when you notice that your thoughts have wandered away from your breath, congratulate yourself for noticing this, and go back to step 2

important: do not berate yourself for getting caught up in your thoughts, do not worry that your head is too full of thoughts to ever be able to "stop thinking" - your brain has been thinking for most of your entire waking life and disengaging from this is hard at first! it gets easier.

"the mind illuminated" is a nice book on the subject IMHO.

That’s a solid introduction to the most well know type of meditation but the specifics can vary quite a bit and people disagree on the specifics. Many groups consider meditation in a religious context though that’s far from universal. There’s also many ideas around what you should be doing while meditating from simply being in the moment to reflective thoughts.

Still meditation is basically get enough sleep then get in a comfortable position sitting, lying down, or even standing just so long as you can hold it indefinitely and focus on something for long periods. Breathing is always available but options vary wildly from something specific like smoke from a stick of incense, to the environment such as trees blowing in the wind, ripples in a stream, or even the sound of someone leading a meditation. Though in general people follow something similar to what egypturnash mentioned.

Moving meditation allows for some representative action like walking, dance, ritualized prayer, juggling, or even some repetitive factory job where you can do it indefinitely without thinking. Just be careful it’s easy to lose focus on what you’re doing so don’t try this when driving etc.

Some see meditation as a means of contemplation, in that you focus on a single topic to focus on while sitting. Please consult you local Buddhist/Zen temple for a Dharma talk or Koan as an example.

But others feel that can be restrictive in that it doesn't go into a deeper state. But that goes to the whole truth of zen and the misleading of the student and the one thinking they need to be there - it gets complicated.

Mind Illuminated is what finally got me into (a more stable) meditation practice.

For those who need a structured intro, for me it was through mastering buoyancy control in SCUBA diving [1]. You’re watching and controlling your breathing and multiple environmental variables. Once you’ve felt what that’s like it’s much easier to recreate it on land.

[1] https://www.tdisdi.com/sdi/get-certified/advanced-buoyancy/

Back when I used "The Relaxation Response" I believe. Taught myself in 7th grade.

- Go some place with no distractions.

- Lay down, and let your muscles go limp.

- Close your eyes, and just focus on your breath. In through the nose, out through the mouth, nice and slowly. I'd often hold at full breath for a few seconds just to let everything settle.. this is not a hurry.

- Focus on relaxing your toes, then your feet, ankles, calves, etc up through your chest, now focus on your arms... let all the stress run out your fingers like rays. Finally focus on your head, and push the stress out through the top of your head, or fingers, which ever feels easier. I'll also push stress through my toes too. The key is to release the stress from your body and visualize it... visualize getting rid of the knots and stress.

Some days, you'll get up to your calves, some days with practice you can get your whole body. But even your toes is an accomplishment!

- Your body will tell you when you are done. It is hard to explain, but you will know, "I'm done." When you are, don't rush to sit up, let your body rest a moment eyes closed, then open your eyes, wait a moment, then sit up. (if you were actually well relaxed this may stop a faint.)

But much of this comes from listening to your body. The noise of life isn't what matters... just listening to your body, and helping it relax....

I use relaxation, as a way to force other things out. So if work comes up, out it goes. Relaxation gives me a central focus, which helps with the whole experience.

That seems to be what all the meditation people say. I've done it many times, and it goes like this:

Ok, lie down. Relax muscles, sinking down, good breathe...

Bored.

Bored bored bored OMG this is so boring!

Breathe, breathe, try not to think of how boring this is!

Bored bored bored oh a bird is chirping. Chirp chirp chirp and gone.

Bored bored bored bored bored holy shit when does this end?

My fingers are flicking now. Bored bored bored bored fuck it I'm done. Waste of an hour.

My friend: wasn't that awesome?

Uhh.. let's just go build something.

I know, right? You've tried harder than me. I don't think I've tried more than a few times and probably didn't crack 15 minutes! I can clear my thoughts of everything except how bored I am and how long a minute feels with this level of boredom.

Love how well you articulate these notions. They are truly valid for most of us. It also means you're doing it right. The point then is to stay with the practice until you can stop fighting the notion of boredom and instead be "friends" with it. Just be fine with the boredom. Learn to relax in it. Hope you'll try it again.

As someone who taught meditation, this is very common. It’s kind of being like addicted to action (to put it bluntly , sorry for that)

Boredom is just one perspective of the mind. For you it might be more beneficial to approach meditation in other ways before sitting still or lie down. For example : when I do indoor climbing I almost get into this meditative state where only the next step matters. Some friends report surfing does this for them.

Observation is the key word, or experience of mind as it goes through different processes (say boredom, sleep, happiness, concentration, building something)

And of course no one ever says this. It's always presented as a "if you do it the right way, and do it enough, then it just works", which is definitely bullshit and even starts to trigger my cult response.

After a month and a half of intensive study that made no difference whatsoever, I'm pretty much done. The marginal benefits don't at all seem worth the extreme effort.

Now I just write instead. It's far more relaxing.

This is absolutely fine, I think of the hundreds of people I taught, I would say 5-10% simply didn’t not catch on at all, no matter my angle of teaching. In those cases I would focus on relaxation above all, like you already gathered yourself.

That said the different pathways to the experience you would call deep meditation is very diverse, and sometimes it’s also a phase/station of life people need to be in. In old texts these things are often described as different temperaments, so I doubt it’s a new thing :D

Some people might find closing their eyes and focusing on breathing to be a bit intense. In that case you could try:

2. Relax and just be in the room.

4. When you notice that your thoughts have wandered congratulate yourself for noticing this and come back to the room.

Guided Meditations are a good place to start!

The Smiling Mind app is excellent.

I'm sure there are plenty of Podcasts and YouTube guided meditations to be had as well!

I’ve had a great experience with The Mind Illuminated[0] which I discovered a couple years ago… via an HN recommendation!

Depending on your preferences you may want to ignore some of the more religious/spiritual parts in it.

Either way, it has had a big, positive, and lasting influence on my life (even though I haven’t been meditating much lately anymore).

[0]: https://a.co/d/08L5nc8t

+1 for that book but it's a bit rough for a start I think. I'd try headspace, calm or any of the free guided meditations on YouTube for a bit before diving into that book. And yes the book reads quite spiritual despite the author being also a neurologist I think so it might not be for everyone.

I highly recommend "With Each And Every Breath": https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/WithEachAndEveryBreath/Con...

Also, the "Waking Up" app, which has a fantastic collection of guided meditations, dharma talks, theory, etc.

"The Mind Illuminated" is a really good book too, with a very specific (and effective) technique taught in a lot of detail.

There are lots of meditation apps out there, but most monetize with a subscription plan before you can access any meaningful amounts of content.

Recently I found an app with a pretty large following called "Insight Timer" that has a spectacular free library. It has single-handedly helped me build a habit after only meditating once or twice in guided settings.

Yeah but we're talking about < $10 for a month of content (on the one meditation app I checked).

The problem is not that one useful app demands <$10.

The problem is that for some reason "everyone" down to creators of alarm clock apps think subscription is the right monetization model.

Many of us are tired.

Please note that I personally at least am not against usage based: tokens are fine with me.

It is the stress of having to remember to unsubscribe (or feeling like a fool when I realize an unused app has been siphoning off money from my account for months) that bugs me.

yeah that sucks. My workaround for that is that privacy.com lets me give each new thing its own credit card number, and their service lets me say that credit card number can only ever be charged $10, so then even if I do forget to cancel, they can't charge me more money.

That, and sometimes you can cancel as soon as you start but still have access for the month.

I would advise to not start on your own and seek a teacher. A book is not a great medium to learn it.

While self taught can work for some people, for most it does not work out. A big thing on self meditation is that it means you do not have a mediator/moderator.

Possibility of ending up on the path to 'Zen-sickness'

https://tricycle.org/magazine/meditation-sickness/

The biggest hurdle is the preconceptions we have about meditation, and the cultural image we carry.

People will try to "be calm", "be zen", they will attempt to "empty their mind". They will look for something special. They will not understand the implications of frustration, impatience, discomfort...

It's very hard by yourself because you bring with you a lot of ideas from a world that doesn't meditate, but certainly has a lot of things they want to claim about meditation no matter how little experience with it they have.

And you won't know when you got in a direction that will not work for you

If you don't mind spending money, waking up has been pretty good so far, or you can try out the beginner course during the free trial to see if it fits you, I started meditation when I first watched headspace series on Netflix, it was world changing for me, remember, it's an exercise, it's not about meditating for a long period each time but gradually build up the habit of meditating, hope you enjoy the benefits and the journey of this!

ps. if you think the app is helpful, don't rush into the subscription, check out its scholarship

Try a float tank (sensory depravation tank). IMO it's like easy mode for meditating and I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

A lot of great answers here, and I would add the book "10% Happier" to the list. There is also a worthwhile companion app, but I prefer Insight Timer for an app.

I highly recommend this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yEorY8UH30&list=PL5B1627ADA...

It's a systematic, well structured and holistic approach. No commercial background. Just teaching. Follow these simple 8 steps. Don't use an app.

This reminds me of how from an early age, when driving with my dad, I could sense when he was about to say something just because he breathing changed for like 3 seconds before he started.

When playing close-up games with one of my cats, I observed that her pupils would dilate about a quarter-second before she struck. This was true 100% of the time after I knew to watch for it.

Is it specific to screens tho? How does it compare to reading a book, writing a letter by hand, sewing, cutting vegetables for lunch, curiously disassenbling an alarm clock or any other activity that requires focus and concentration?

I don't think it's very specific to screens, but it is specific to situations where you've got incoming stressful content and especially a time deadline.

Which perfectly describes when you're trying to deal with all your e-mails before 10 am and a lot of the situations don't have easy resolutions, or you're trying to debug something that just won't work and you have no idea why and it's going to mess up the entire rest of your day if you don't get it fixed in the next 30 minutes.

So just a lot of our time-pressure stress situations happen via our screens now.

The situations you're describing seem very much the opposite of stressful.

Oh, I never considered e-mail as generally stressful. Certainly there are e-mails that can raise my blood pressure, but that usually happens after reading them. I see e-mail mostly as a letter, that I open when I see fit and answer when I can. The red dot indicating a direct message on Teams or Slack is much more stressful.

One of the main issue is sitting for extended periods of time with no physical activity whatsoever. This is one of the worst position for breathing (compared to laying down or standing up at least). Unless you're consciously reminding yourself to breathe normally you will default to shallow breathing.

Virtually nobody sits 8+ hours a day reading books, writing letter, sewing or cutting veggies

Computers are like these magic devices to get us into potentially a fight or flight response with zero physical danger. People’s heart rates rise when they get an email from work. I can’t imagine its good for the health, mating these mental responses that are designed to go along with a physical response with just sedentary behavior instead. And doing it every day all your working life no less. What does this mean in terms of the underlying chemistry, are there neuortransmitters or hormones perhaps that aren’t getting processed or turned over by the physical response when they ought to? Maybe we should experiment running to the hills when we get an email from the boss and see if that changes things.

When an email drops, do some squats; when you start to stray, pushups all the way.

Email apnea - was an article linked here a while ago. It's a big problem - the ridiculousness of the proposition makes it most likely less talked about...

In fact it's mentioned in the third paragraph of the article you're commenting upon.

Obligatory SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/lions

Damn.. I wish I could feel good when jogging. At best it is excruciating, at worst one time in Bristol I could not take it anymore and started punching a tree from the frustration until I bled.

I love walking, but it does not do anything significant for my cardiovascular health :(

I used to have a really big problem with holding my breath when I played League of Legends. I'd routinely get dizzy after long teamfights and I was completely unable to communicate with my teammates over voice chat during fights/skirmishes because I couldn't make myself expel air (which is worse may depend on your point of view).

For me it is intense focus or stress and they could cause me to hold my breath.

In the anime Demon Slayer, breath control (and specifically breathing while moving) is the primary method of performing spectacular feats in battle which is cool

Say that someone was measuring their own brain data at home using an EEG headset. What DIY/low-cost clinical solution might be able to provide biomarkers (AKA data that you've timestamp-synced to brain data to help a multimodal model) for breath rate/depth? Anyone familiar with the research or relevant companies, or have a wacky MacGyver proposal to get it done on the cheap? My first guesses:

1. Wearing a sticker on the chest seems right out, but a fannypack/messenger-bag like device that fits under a shirt could work. Could also be a good addition to an overall mobile-monitoring setup for EEG data -- you could even move the batteries and bluetooth components from your head/belt to the square of your back. This would obviously only work over a shirt though, which seems like it would make getting high quality breath data harder.

2. I mean... dare I just ignore the physical sciences and aim a high quality camera at myself? To what extent is a microphone in your glasses + footage of your chest rising and falling enough? Sorta doubting anyone here has experience here but you never know!

3. I vaguely know that people measure things with lasers -- this could be enough for measuring breathing while seated at a desk perhaps! And surely the most accurate by far, disregarding noise from clothing.

If I ever get to this point, I look forward to trying all these before hitting up google scholar for the boring easy answer...

For what purpose? If you just want to know your respiratory rate, respiration belts are simple and very effective. You should be able to MacGyver your own with limited electronics skills: https://www.instructables.com/Quick-and-dirty-Respiration-Se....

> To what extent is a microphone in your glasses + footage of your chest rising and falling enough?

I'm sure a skilled computer vision engineer could make this work, but I'd argue it's the wrong approach. Lasers might work as well, but I think your best bet is radar. I know there are companies making doppler radar-based systems for tracking respiratory rate. Can't dig for them at the moment but here's an article about the method: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10172641/.

By the way, heart-rate variability correlates strongly with respiratory rate. As far as I understand, this is because inhalation raises your blood pressure which increases your heart rate. Using a pulse oxymeter, you should be able to extract respiratory rate from the raw PPG data. Should be effective if you're otherwise healthy and reasonably young. HRV decreases with age and illness. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34024811/

When I started meditating, one of the first things I noticed was how I would stop breathing the moment I got on a computer. Kind of mindblowing that this issue is effecting many people!

Does anyone track their stress levels whilst programming?

Anecdotally and non-scientifically I’ve noticed that my health (stress related illness) has vastly reduced since moving from being a staff engineer to engineering management.

It’s not that I’m less stressed but the stress is a different pattern.

Whilst programming I noticed that my day was a series of spikes of frustration and stress and then a severe drop off once I solved a problem.

Essentially a dopamine - serotonin feedback loop all day every day.

My stress now is generally a more flat and smooth line.

I often thought it would have been interesting to actually track it using a medical device but was unsure if anything like that even exists.

Interesting. Anecdotally agree.

I’ve been trying to improve my mindset when coding. I find myself worrying about solving the problem correctly, and I’m trying to change that so my focus is more on slow, correct practice. Easier said than done, but the idea is that it will be less stressful and reduce the frustration peaks you mentioned

This is something I have been thinking about a lot since moving from programming into management. Some sort of device to measure the data on this would be really interesting, if only just to see that other people in the same position experience the same thing.

I had the opposite experience. Frustrations whilst coding could be severe but were mostly things within my control. Sure, we had major failures and outages which spiked stress, but these were rare and we learned and grew from them.

As a manager, I was constantly dealing with things way outside my control with much more severe consequences: other people's emotions, people quitting, budget cuts, layoffs, political posturing. At one point I was told to layoff an entire team of very talented, very productive Ukrainian engineers because Russia had decided to invade their country and my company didn't want to deal with the _possibility_ that they'd become unproductive.

I know it's entirely dependent on the type of work and the organization, but from a stress-reduction standpoint I'll take staff engineer over people manager every time.

Same. The two big stresses as an IC are "I have a difficult problem and I might need to ask for help or admit I can't do it, but there's no deadline closer than the end of the day" and "Production is on fire, which means I get to feel like a hero for a few hours and then do a writeup begging for time to fix our stupid problems." Stressful, but not too scary since there were no other humans involved.

When I briefly tried to manage my own team the problem was, "The whole team is staring at me during this boring-ass meeting and it turns out the company's problems are not something I can solve as quick as I thought I could"

Letting down customers is stressful, too. When we had big customers quit I took it kinda personally.

A lot of hubris involved I guess

I've noticed myself doing this myself. I thought it was just because I also have sleep apnea, so what's causing me to stop breathing when I sleep is also happening when I'm waking and engaged on the computer.

Didn't consider that it might be as widespread as the article is suggesting.

I remember reading about this effect of holding your breath during email about a decade or so ago, I started noticing whenever others around me sighed heavily as they closed their laptop or turned to talk to someone. My anecdata agrees that it is an extremely widespread phenomenon and probably takes deliberate training to avoid.

I was thinking about as well. I also have sleep apnea, and I have weird habits of holding my breath throughout the day for reasons I never fully understood. When I got the apnea diagnosis I assumed that that was just further manifestation.

I should probably work on my posture and try breathing exercises.

Are there any reliable breathing monitors? Apple Watch/Oura ring have some respiratory metrics but only while sleeping (afaict). A quick google search showed me Oxa [0] but I have no clue if it's reliable, much less while sitting/working.

[0] https://www.oxalife.com/

Edit: maybe a pulse ox ear clip would work. Bonus points if it could shock me into breathing again when it detects low values.

This kind of Biofeedback is also useful in monitoring one's meditation practice.

Definitely would want recommendations on something like this.

I also want a wearable and app that can alert me when I'm not breathing deeply and rhythmically.

And I'm not talking pulse oximeter here. I'm talking my chest expanding enough with each inhale.

Check my other comment above this.

https://github.com/kieranabrennan/every-breath-you-take

Paired with the polar h10 strap is a good place to start.

I used it for a little while, and quickly found that I could only breathe properly and consistently whilst I was watching/aware of my breath. As soon as I started 'working' my breathing went back to terrible.

Can I suggest one extra piece of advice? Take up singing! It's a great way to learn to breathe and strengthen those muscles. Plus, it is one of the most fun and bonding things to do in a group.

Also don’t forget to blink while you are at it.

https://uihc.org/health-topics/computer-vision-syndrome

Any musician knows that controlling the breath controls the sound that comes out, even for non wind instruments like violin and piano.

This suggests the breath is a connection between our emotional state to the outside world.

I've been a piano player for more than 30 years. I'm not a pro by any means, but I perform regularly. I'm not saying I'm a great player, just that I have some experience with the instrument.

I've never heard of the breath thing.

Here is Maxim Vengerov discussing about breathing in music in his masterclass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWDK5aUW4-Q&ab_channel=Maxim...

The given examples seem all be using pieces where the tempo moves around a lot. It makes some sense to me in that context. Although I don't personally play much music like that.

> Stone, the former Microsoft executive ...

is there a name for this reverential referring to a former job? ... stereotypical example would be the investment banker turned oyster diver.

Seems like a good application for the Apple Watch to remind you to breathe.

Serious comment, not a joke. Although it seems like your body will automatically trigger a breath when the blood pH gets low enough. Otherwise we'd hear about phone users keeling over.

If I try to concentrate on my breathing I always feel like I'm not getting enough air. If I persist, I honestly start panicking a little bit.

Related: I can't snorkel for the same reason, except I panic A LOT.

i remeber making my friends and other students @ school "mad" because from time to time (during hours) i said in loud voice: "remember that you breathe" & everyone changed from automatic to manual mode :D

later on, i built an assist robot for some breathe exercises: https://codeberg.org/luqtas/Zid

Why I was dabbling in capoeira my trainer pointed multiple times, that my mediocre stamina during train sessions was due my holding my breath. I did not quite believe her, but still I wonder how often this is an issue in sport activities.

Interesting. I often find that I get good ideas when I'm hiking or biking, which gets me into a real good breathing pattern. Makes me wonder if it has more to do with the breathing than with the exercise.

Someone write a program that blacks out my screen every time my webcam senses I'm not breathing deeply enough

I hold my breath when I code. Just always thought it was some quirk of mine.

I did it when performing guitar.

Caught myself holding in my breath while reading that headline!

> "Poor breathing is what you see when you look at 90% of the population," science journalist James Nestor told Zomorodi. "It includes breathing through the mouth,

hmm

Are there any good web apps for breathing?

Focus and awareness of the breath is exactly why I created my iOS Breathwork App.

www.breathwork-timer.com

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