Comment by leohonexus | Hacker News Reader

Comment by leohonexus | Hacker News Reader

I was curious about the legal grounds that schools have to confiscate student's phones for up to a week, and I found this document from the UK government:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62d1643e8fa8f...

Some things that concern me:

- Page 19: Staff may examine any data or files on an electronic device they have confiscated as a result of a search, as defined in paragraph 57, if there is good reason to do so.

- Page 20: In determining whether there is a ‘good reason’ to examine the data or files, the member of staff should reasonably suspect that the data or file on the device has been, or could be used, to cause harm, undermine the safe environment of the school and disrupt teaching, or be used to commit an offence.

It also doesn't seem to lay out a limit on the duration for which a device can be confiscated - which makes confiscation for a week look a bit like a grey area to me. Would love to hear from anyone with more experience on this area.

I've seen this before. To quote a barrister friend of mine, regardless of the law, it mostly depends on how big a stick the person having their device confiscated wields. The stick in this case is connections, parents etc. They rely purely on submission to enforce this policy. A simple "no" removes consent and their ability to do anything about it. If after that it is forced upon you, then things get "interesting" to quote him because it depends how they try and enforce it.

For example the barrister friend in question's daughter had her phone confiscated and it went missing in custody of the staff. The school disclaimed all responsibility but paid the moneyclaim out for a new phone quietly when the relevant stick was wielded and removed their policy of confiscation immediately as they worked out it was a liability. Turns out that while the law says they can do this, it doesn't mention anything about having no duty of care of other people's property at the same time...

During my school years, my teacher confiscated a deck of my trading cards and stored them in the classroom drawer.

You could probably see where this goes next - very quickly all my cards were stolen by my classmates, and I could do nothing while I saw my classmates play my own cards, as I had no proof they were mine.

That certainly taught me a lesson or two about human nature, at least at that time...

Similar thing happened to me in the 80s.

I learned never to take anything of value into school.

My kids learned the same thing in the same way.

The school has broad powers to regulate student behaviour. Part 7 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006.

Link:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/40/part/7/chapter/...

As long as the phone is locked, surely mere teachers can't force a student to unlock it.

That an official government document explicitly mentioning that school staff is allowed to search a device without law enforcement (either being present, or authorized by warrant) is problematic in and of itself.

You can decline this at any age. What can they do? Well turns out at that point they can only threaten to or apply violence or confiscate it until you hand over the details, none of which are "reasonable in all circumstances" as quoted in the legislation.

So the correct answer is to tell your kids to tell them to get fucked and call you. At that point, remind them that the device is your property, decline their request and they can only threaten you, which is 100% illegal.

I am more worried about the teachers from experience than the other students. Some of them I have encountered over the last 15 years of having three kids at school have been right nasty pieces of work and should not be in a position to have power over a minor.

but why? if im a teacher getting wind of cyberbullying, or a photo being shared, what should i do? call the police every time?

im telling you, the police will not like that policy any more than the students.

you're in a school. you don't have the right to do whatever you please.

I agree that teachers should be able to enforce discipline in schools.

With that said, I've got no idea what schools should do about things like sexting.

If I was a teacher and I confiscated a phone which might have illegal photos of underage students on it, I wouldn't want to turn a blind eye to that. But I also sure as hell wouldn't want to search it myself. I'd want that done by someone of unimpeachable character.

One of my sons schools had a case where someone was suspected, and from my understanding the school spoke to the police about it, and given the lack of any concrete evidence against one specific they, opted to send out a school-wide e-mail encouraging parents to talk to their kids and check their phone instead. Not a funny e-mail to get but frankly I'd rather that than find a random teacher had been tasked with it on the basis of suspicion that someone in school had been spreading something.

of course, in case of explicit images, i 100% agree. escalated straight to head of the school/department, who is detached from the situation and has a process to follow (presumably involving authorities)

I disagree. You don't need a warrant to search your child's phone as a parent.

Teachers have many of the same powers over children that their parents do. Power to detain, to punish, and yes to search.

If you're not happy with that as a parent then you can home educate them instead.

I disagree. Teachers don't have those powers unless parents explicitly opt in.

Also, your argument is pretty much "if you don't like it just leave". Which is one of the worst arguments for pretty much anything.

I am curious whether you are a UK citizen? In general, British law does not protect privacy, and is far less liberal (in the classical sense) than outsiders expect. The bits you cite seem fairly typical for UK expectations and rights.

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