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Comment by A_D_E_P_T | Hacker News Reader

Are you aware of the circumstances of how he ended up there? I'm not sure what options you think he had.

I totally agree that he didn't have many options.

A consequence of him choosing to be under the protection of an adversary of my country is that his opinions about my country carry much less weight with me now.

But it is not an opinion about your country, unless you think there's significant symbiosis between OpenAI and the US government, proving his point.

Quite the opposite. He's saying that OpenAI is a tool of the American surveillance state. I don't even really disagree with that.

Edward Snowden saying it while under the protection of the Russian government makes me look for ulterior motives. That's how we're supposed to treat disinformation, isn't it?

If you don't disagree with that, what do you disagree wih here?

Of course criticizing the US is the ulterior motive here, doesn't make the criticism false.

I disagree with the idea that I'm supposed to take Snowden seriously when he is in a compromised and dangerous position.

It undermines his integrity, which he's obviously trading on.

Whether a statement is factual doesn't depend on where it is coming from.

But the probability that a statement is factual does.

This is about OpenAI getting former NSA chief on its board. There's no probability involved here.

No, this is about what Snowden thinks the consequences of this appointment will be. At least, that’s the charitable reading of the tweet. Really this is just fear-mongering hyperbole.

He was en route somewhere else, the US cancelled his passport and downed diplomatic planes out of russia that they suspected he was on, this was an international scandal that you conveniently forgot.

Can we please put these myths to bed? or are you intending to intentionally spread this misinformation?

EDIT: parent has edited their comment to be much less inflammatory.

What here are you saying is a myth? I've been a Snowden supporter from the beginning, but it's unwise to ignore the realpolitik of the current situation. It's not like if he starts saying things that are critical of Russia and draws aggro, he can just come back to the West without facing severe persecution. Based on his already having given up so much performing thankless patriotic service to the United States, I'd personally say he's entitled to just live out the rest of his days saying whatever the Kremlin tells him he needs to and otherwise just taking it easy. And I know that's a shitty position for him to be in while still seemingly having plenty to say himself, but that's the reality.

The myth is that he ran to the enemy of the US to be friendly with Russia.

There is no reason for the Kremlin to tell him to say anything. There would be a lot of negative consequences for that if it came out and Snowden is quite literally known for being outspoken, and it would also be harmful for Snowden if he was forced to say something untrue.

Ironically our own politicians misrepresent the truth far more often than Snowden seems to.

But obviously he is refraining from saying anything critical of the very obvious tyrannical situation in Russia

I don't see that anybody here has said he ended up in Russia because he wanted to be friendly with Russia. Rather simply that going to Russia (and then getting stuck there) was the better alternative to being persecuted by USG.

There would be no repercussions for the Kremlin being exposed as having instructed Snowden on what to say. Russian propaganda works in the presence of everyone knowing it's propaganda, by sheer volume. There would obviously be repercussions for Snowden if he talked about any such thing though. The dynamic could also merely just be the implication though, coupled with a bunch of understandable resentment from having been persecuted by USG.

(and I don't really care to engage with the whataboutist relativist argument)

>There would be a lot of negative consequences for that if it came out

The current Russian government doesn't seem too concerned about negative consequences, whether short or long-term.

The consequence is what, bad PR? Lol. It's piss in the ocean. This wouldn't even register in the top 100,000 "negative consequences" that the Russian government is facing right now.

What disinformation are you talking about?

Does he not live in Russia with dual US and Russian citizenship? Is he somehow more free than everyone else in Russia to criticize the actions of the Russian government?

I don't think Edward Snowden is a bad person. He followed his conscience and I can respect that. Now he is in a situation where his speech about everything other than the United States and its allies is limited.

Are we supposed to believe that him criticizing the US doesn't bring him a material benefit? That there's no quid pro quo for keeping him out the US justice system?

The events you've mentioned are WHY he is in Russia. The fact that he IS there and the Russian leverage over him is what makes me discount his statements.

> Are we supposed to believe that him criticizing the US doesn't bring him a material benefit?

It sure worked out well for him when he had nothing to gain. And it's not like criticizing OpenAI is some absurd position to take, they're being run by the dude that was scanning people's eyes with a silver orb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldcoin

From googling, Snow Don departed HK on 2013-06-22 and the US State Department cancelled his US passport on 2013-06-23.

Got the dates mixed up. Apparently they cancelled his passport on the 22nd, after which he departed. As to whether the cancellation catalyzed the flight to Moscow with help from HK is another question.

I wonder what the options are. Seems like any developed country would given him to USA without any issues no matter how illegal it is (see Kim Dotcom saga), and out of all the “pro Russia “ options Russia(Moscow) is the most developed one to have a good lifestyle.

Should have never run and would have been out free by now like Chelsea Manning.

Same with Reality Winner.

Seems like everyone else who blew the whistle about this stuff didn’t need to run away.

My guess is he'd be serving a life sentence.

He may have, but it's not as like we knew Manning was going to be pardoned in 2013. She was also put through extremely cruel and unusual treatment during detention, such as being kept in solitary confinement for months at a time for no reason other than to make an example.

Powers that be have always had it in waaaaaay more for Snowden. I don't think he'd be free like Manning.

Unless you're involved in that decision making process and leaking the information here, that's just pure random guy internet speculation. The scope for them was very different and you're basically saying "trust this with your life, you'll be totally fine".

What is this based on? No matter what people think he deserves, my guess is that Snowden, like Assange, is a character that the ruling class wants to make an example of. Chelsea Manning does not threaten the ruling class, especially after you know what.

Assange is still being charged.

Remember when Mike Pompeo, who would go on to be both a CIA Director and Secretary of State, publicly called for Snowden to be executed. I do.

how he ended up there has no impact on what influence Putin has over him now. Which is a lot. And incase you don’t follow the war in Ukraine, where dissidents and journalists are jailed for straying even slightly from the main narrative. He doesn’t get a free pass, hes very likely pressured to a large degree especially given the influencer like status he wields.

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