Satellite data show electromagnetic anomalies 19 days before Turkey earthquake
phys.org
phys.org
"My cat walked across the keyboard right before the large earthquake" is not statistically significant.
Earthquake Prediction is filled with cranks. To deal with the issue, there is a neutral set of criteria for "how to test a prediction theory" which involves making predictions in advance with a clear description of what types of events match the predictions and likelihood of event. Geologists can then compare a series of predictions and their outcomes to what would be expected based on historic patterns. Math then allows one to determine if the prediction theory is better than random guessing.
No predictions have yet been better than random guessing.
For example this study found 2 out of 3 major earthquakes studied had similar precursor events. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S14747...
It’s not consistent, but it’s more than a one off correlation.
So I read papers like this one as hopeless fishing expeditions. But if the fishing expedition turns up with a good catch anyway, people will look into it more. Unfortunately I'm not versed enough to asses their catch. Will wait for a geologist friend for context.
or
https://arxiv.org/abs/0905.2782
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Sornette
made a name for himself a couple of decades ago with an approach to predicting earthquakes, financial crashes and other catastrophes:
Any edits he made that aren't his own page are editing in references to his own work in other articles.
And this would not be "predicting", but more "noticing that the process already started"
For earthquakes we are lacking both in models and in measurements. We don't know whether there is "a process started" in the days before a quake. This paper is looking for one.
We have performed data analytics based on publicly available seismic data that confirmed there are indeed reliable short-term precursor (minor earthquakes around 3 Mw) in all the latest major earthquakes (more than 7 Mw) within one month prior to the event. The seismic data that we analyzed latest major earthquakes from five countries including Turkey (the same latest major earthquakes this paper is reporting), New Zealand, Japan (2024), Indonesia and Philippines. However all prominent relevant journals for seismology/earth/geology/etc, and general journals for examples Nature (main journal and its sub journal Nature Communications) and Science (main journal and its sub journal Scientific Reports) were rejecting the reporting paper before it's even reviewed by the proper reviewers, and rejected by the editors. Heck, even arXiv.org rejected the paper and it's suppose to be pre-print archive not a proper journal.
Enough ranting, my point is that based on our analysis they are really precursors for major earthquakes, and we should be monitoring these properly. In fact in the first 100 days of this year 2024, earth have experienced devastating 3 major quakes of more than 7 Mw in Japan, China and Taiwan, the most frequent in world's recorded history within the short period. The so called seismic/geology/earthquake experts, however, seems to have their mind closed that they are treating earthquakes prediction like the investment or lottery prediction (snake oils).
[1] Can you predict earthquakes?
You have not produced extraordinary evidence - or even evidence at all.
You also don't provide the motive for such a conspiracy.
The kicker: you claim the USGS is leading the charge in shutting down all prediction research, yet the only page you cite is to USGS page which includes a link to a group that engages in prediction experiments: https://www.scec.org/research/csep
Have you seen any USGS sponsored journal with special issue on earthquake prediction?
Have you have heard any earthquake early detection and prediction competition in the US, not unlike the yearly Computing in Cardiology (CINC) competition for the improvement of CVDs early detection and prediction?
[1]George B. Moody PhysioNet Challenge:
Give location, time and magnitude. Period.
Have at it. If successful, your results will be noticed.
[1] Chinese Nationwide Earthquake Early Warning System and Its Performance in the 2022 Lushan M6.1 Earthquake:
This discussion is not about if the current prediction methods are good or not, it's about if we should even try to develop these methods to begin with. How many cancer researchers would there be today if you had to cure one yourself, with no grants or outside ressources before you are even allowed to enter the field? Probably not a lot.
Your argument is a self fullfilling profecy. You justify preventing them to research how to predict earthquake by saying that they have not already predicted one.
Maybe in a couple of decades we will find out that many of the big ones could have been very easily predicted, maybe not. The way things are going, we will never know.
Dr. Randall W. Jones with FirstScan cancer product was among the pioneer of cancer screening device, an engineering doctor not an MD, and he even wrote a book on the struggles and endeavours [1]. According to him "Healthcare is in crisis" and “The system is broken".
Based on our initial results using the latest major earthquakes in five earthquake error prone countries based on publicly available offline seismic data, definitely we really can predict the earthquake within several days prior to the main major shocks hopefully preventing many lost of lives, unless we screw up the analysis bigtime. But again that's what peer reviews of papers are very important and critical, but we cannot even get past the all the reputable journal editors that we sent to, in order to get any proper review, c'est la vie.
[1] The Healthcare Disruptor: How An Underdog Inventor And His Companies Are Changing Medicine And Saving Lives:
The rule-of-thumb is that there are in the order of 10.000 3 Mw earthquakes for every single 7 Mw earthquake. How do you decide which 9.900+ ones to discard? How are you going to distinguish a critical precursor from a 2.3 Mw Taylor Swift concert[0]?
[0]: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/27/entertainment/taylor-swif...
As other said just correctly preddict 10 and you will get your Nobel prize.
Piezoelectricity is one of the proposed mechanisms that might explain both earthquake lights and animal behavior changes minutes or hours before the actual shocks start.
I don't know whether satellites are ideal or are sensitive enough (because of their distance from the ground) for this kind of earthquake prediction but over the years there have been significant numbers of terrestrially-bound observations of electrical/electromagnetic disturbances occurring before a quake happens to suggest the phenomenon ought to be fully investigated.
These EM anomalies have been the subject of a news report in an earlier HN story and I made a suggestion then that until the science was fully established that the Amateur Radio Service could be of possible assistance.
Amateur radio operators could perhaps establish a worldwide network to monitor and or detect changes in the EM field on, say, an ultra low frequency band (below the AM broadcast band) as it's likely the most suitable. I'd envisage Amateurs operating a network of CW TXes and signature changes in their carrier signals would act as the early warnings.
This could be done as a separate Amateur operation (national operations—RSGB, ARRL, WIA, etc. and or through the IARU), or in conjunction with various government agencies, IPS (Ionospheric Prediction Services), etc.
The advantage of using the Amateur Service or including it with government operations (which at the outset would be small) is that many more monitoring points could be established quickly. Moreover, given the science is not well established, it's unlikely governments would fund a large network early on. That's where Amateurs come in, by contrast, the cost of establishing an Amateur network would be minimal and would grow organically (as Amateurs are inherently flexible).
How do you trigger "The Alarm" for a given area? How much of a guard band do you put around the event and what happens when you have false positives? Do you call everyone back to the region and say sorry it was a false alarm, only for it to trigger a week later! Would not want to be the one calling the shots on this.
It also seems like a good technology to throw into a movie plot - Super Mega Quake... starring Dwyane Johnson.