iTerm2 v3.5.1 moves AI features into external plugin
iterm2.com
iterm2.com
I have no idea how to solve that problem though, it's just part of our zeitgeist and I hope people get bored with it sooner rather than later.
People who responded with anger ("ragebait-hateporn") at this feel pressured on all sides by this AI hype cycle (not saying all AI features are hype, just that we are in a hype cycle where many are useless). It's getting frustrating and tired. For many it feels like the crypto hype cycle again.
It's easy to understand how "great, now even my terminal is putting AI features in?!" is the response, especially with a tool as beloved as iTerm, and as "close to the machine" as a terminal is. It's one thing for Notion to put AI things in, it's another for the interface where I regularly type sudo to do massive operations across my machine.
The feature wasn't added out of pure hype either. It was likely inspired by user feedback [2], and the dev ultimately added it because it was useful for him personally [3].
Despite all of this, people are raging about unprovable nefarious motives and making claims about spyware, as if it's Windows we're talking about. They pretend as if it's maintained by some faceless for-profit entity trying to screw us over instead of a sole developer trying to create good software in his spare time. Some are even openly fantasizing about inflicting physical violence [4].
This kind of behavior should be condemned, not praised.
[1]: https://github.com/gnachman/iTerm2/blob/a3122c0100d8900a15cb...
[2]: https://gitlab.com/gnachman/iterm2/-/issues/6955
[3]: https://techhub.social/@gnachman/109542492387391561
[4]: https://web.archive.org/web/20240613165712/https://archive.i...
Perhaps we can start by signaling that we personally care about how we behave online.
The "opt-in" you're speaking of was leaving the API key textbox blank.
My understanding is that this being filled in with anything is enough to have iTerm potentially send commands to OpenAI. There are also many companies that reject any applications that integrate with 3p AI services, which iTerm would have been caught up with.
Once your labor of love is used by hundreds of thousands/millions of people, then it's not unreasonable to receive complaints when the maintainer makes an unpopular decision. Not everyone has time to fork and maintain their own copy.
OpenAI integration is activated after you write a question to be sent to the AI [3]. It takes many clicking and typing to get to that point and can't possibly happen by accident.
It's one thing to not like a feature. But to behave in the way people behaved is not merely ridiculous, it's wrong and horrifying. People came to the issue tracker from Mastodon looking to start a fight that was uncalled for, threw insults and lies, and fantasized about physically harming the dev [4]. When all they could've done to avoid the feature was to simply do nothing.
[1]: https://gitlab.com/gnachman/iterm2/-/issues/11475
[2]: https://gitlab.com/gnachman/iterm2/-/issues/11470
[3]: https://github.com/gnachman/iTerm2/blob/a3122c0100d8900a15cb...
[4]: https://web.archive.org/web/20240613165712/https://archive.i...
If your most technically capable users, who are usually the MOST excited about new tech, are the people who are ready to burn down the world to stop you from adding AI features, what do you think normal people think?
I feel that, without several very major breakthroughs in the next few years, we're more likely to hit another AI winter in the 2030s than achieving AGI.
They mostly don't.
The most common objections to AI that come from the dev community are: privacy; IP rights involved in training data (and how it fucks over individuals)
The general public almost exclusively judges the features that are handed to them in products based on their utility and not the above concerns, so they will always be less critical overall.
In next 3 to 5 years, many of the sparkling icons next to input fields in many products summoning AI would be gradually removed.
OpenAI will have the fate of Twitter. High valuation but not profitable. Subscriptions alone not offsetting the personal and compute costs.
I don't think anyone knows for sure where that wall will actually be (including OpenAI themselves). While I don't actually think we'll get AGI any time soon from any company[1], if they did manage to fully crack it, then there's really no limit to how much they can actually do and how much money they can actually make.
I certainly don't think we've seen the end of the capabilities though, even in the near term; I think the GPT models have a lot of room to improve and I think that newer models for generative images and video and music and 3D models are going to get substantially better. How "profitable" that will be will depend on a bunch of variables (e.g. costs of GPUs/TPUs/something else, energy costs, potential regulatory hurdles, etc.).
[1] I don't really know what I'm talking about, I'm not a machine learning or AI expert, it's just a gut feeling I have.
iTerm2 removes AI feature from core, creates separate plugin
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40458135
iTerm2 and AI Hype Overload
IIRC, there’s a plugin or something to enable this in iTerm.
I use WezTerm currently and it supports it out of the box.
I've been a happy Kitty user for some years now. It requires a specific termcap, so foreign servers are a royal PITA, otherwise it is pretty nice.
Granted, not everyone will notice or miss such features in their terminal.
+ Can open windows and tabs in a preset arrangement
+ Can choose from multiple arrangements across multiple displays
+ Tells me if there's a newline in what I'm about to paste
+ Exports its config to a JSON file in a place I choose
+ I can remove the tab close buttons to prevent a misclick (I'm clumsy)
+ I can change tab colours from a shell script
+ Multiple profiles
+ Text spacing both horizontal and vertical can be tweaked
+ I can log everything displayed and typed in my terminals, for later searching
+ I can disable cmd-clicking on URLs
OK that's enough procrasturbating for now- Drop down terminal like Yakuake
- Visual bell, can show me when something has finished running
- Great incremental search, with regex supported
- Instant Replay, to allow time travel through anything erased from the terminal (like TUI screen repaints)
- Global search through all open terminals
- Triggers can highlight particular text when outputted on any terminal when a regex is matched
If using the Toolbelt feature :
- Keep track of your paste history
- Allows the use of text snippets to save typing long commands on remote hosts where you can't define an alias
- Show running background jobs and send them signals
If using shell integration:
- Directory name picker based on frecency, which is useful for adding directory names when composing long commands or to jump to a directory when using Zsh (which lets you omit the 'cd' command).
- Hotkeys to jump back to the points of the commands entered, to avoid scrolling back through pages of console output to find the beginning of a command
It's my personal opinion, not backed by any scientific studies or whatever, that this kind of behavior directly leads to developer burnout, and is, put plainly, toxic and counterproductive.
I'm surprised that the maintainer actually moved this code out. I would have told people to pound sand, personally, given the absolute vitriol sent his way.
Remember the human on the other side of messages you are sending. This thread is nowhere near as bad as the previous but come on, people.
Sounds like a great way to get even more vitriol, and continue to get it for years afterward. Every time you released a new version, there it’d resurface again. Sure, you could block some people on GitLab, but then you’d see it on social media or what have you.
Or you could just move it out to a plugin quickly (which is what happened, the beta for this version was out in a couple of days) and curtail the backlash.
Being angry at the people angry about you is not a practical solution if your goal is piece of mind.
You recently said (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40628935):
> Having a combative relationship with every stranger may not be the most productive way to conduct yourself.
Which I agree with. It seems to concur with my point (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40658456):
> Being angry at the people angry about you is not a practical solution
If you don’t think so, I’d be interested in understanding what you see as the principal difference between those statements. To clarify, I was also referring to (internet) strangers.
In sum, why even bother in this case? Just rip it out to a plugin and never think about it again. Now that is pragmatic.
The very features of AI that are exciting are also the reason why it is so intrusive to our privacy and security.
Vocal minority of users was hostile to the idea of integrating so the developer switched to a separate plugin model.
Security theatre imho but understandable in some enterprises
AI doesn't need to be anywhere near the Terminal without explicit intervention from the user, and I'm glad it's now in an external plugin.
The classic example is making everyone at US airports take off their shoes, have their shoes x-rayed, and then putting them back on -- for decades after the single incident in which a man failed to blow up a plane with explosives in his shoes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid
Moving code out into an optional plugin -- so that it can be verified not to be in use or even removed -- is not theatre.
Also, how exactly is the functionality going to run without manually adding the API key?
Its code to invoke a request to an API. where exactly is the attack surface? It’s not running an endpoint.
Finally, it’s a terminal app. It has access to way more powerful and sensitive tools with higher security risk
To be more accurate I guess i could have said privacy theatre but i think the point stands.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I dunno, I feel like I can't be the only person sick of adding AI to every damn thing. When I was applying to jobs last year, I ended up avoiding anything directly mentioning AI in the job description, because about 80% of the time it felt like it was some founder straight out of school who knew nothing about CS but knew just enough about how to proxy to ChatGPT that they were able to get a few million dollars of VC money, and they were extremely annoying to talk to. I guess having a bunch of people tell you that you're a visionary must give most people an ego, and I'm way too cynical to put up with that.
I think iTerm moving this to a plugin is a pretty good idea. If people want to add AI crap into everything, don't let me stop them, but I don't really want it added to the default stack of iTerm.
You say it's "shoehorning" on one hand, then "I can understand how a terminal might be able to benefit from AI" on another.
It didn't send anything off in the background (you don't need an AI feature to do that, BTW).
The backlash was completely unwarranted here, and I say that as someone who wouldn't bother using that feature at all.
In the case of startups using AI, most of them have some marginal benefit from the AI usage, if a bit overblown. By "shoehorning", what I was saying is that there isn't sufficient justification for a lot of the AI usage; it makes stuff 1% easier (maybe), while making the product more expensive (only being subsidized by VC money or just operating at a loss so it doesn't immediately look like it is in the short term). I didn't say "shoehorning" to imply that there's zero utility in it, just that there's not really enough to justify a lot of it.
> It didn't send anything off in the background (you don't need an AI feature to do that, BTW).
Fair enough, I didn't look into the implementation details, and obviously you can have stuff sent in the background without AI (e.g. usage statics). Most AI stuff I've seen has been just proxied to OpenAI (or some competitor/affiliate), so I guess I just assumed that that's what iTerm was doing.
ETA:
Looking into this a bit further, I completely agree that the vicious comments that have been spreading in regards to this are completely ridiculous and mean-spirited. I'm sick of AI as much of the next guy but people are being pretty dickish about something that fundamentally they're getting for free.
Maybe it’s the language I was using to debug an issue (typescript and having click/drag events override each other), but chatgpt 4o (along with the previous versions) would get into this circular path of offering suggestions (would cycle the same three solutions).
It was also interesting to note that when this circular debug path started it would start to remove random properties or objects or types from the code. It wouldn’t be noticeable reading it but if you have any modern editor you’ll see the issues with your lsp/linter. The removals had nothing to do with solutions proposed.
This issue seemed to always happen to me, I think I have to relegate these LLMs to act like advanced scaffolding tools where I can include detailed instructions for basic capabilities as well (rather than writing them saving a decent amount of hours all things considered).
I don’t know if other models are actually good at debugging (going to guess no because they don’t seem to actually understand context of the problem, just the relations of keywords when suggesting solutions).
I agree with the other poster, maybe trash is a harsh word but it is extremely bad for debugging anything advanced it seems.
I've become a bit disillusioned by the idea of it being any good for direct code generation in its current iterations; nearly everything its generated has required pretty substantial fixes on my end, to a point where I'm not sure it's actually saving me time. The thing I mostly use ChatGPT for now is for parsing and digesting server logs.
This is a reasonable take. When it was first released it was odd watching the entire internet treat chatGPT as some kind of oracle
It’s really amazing at generating content, but it doesn’t actually think or know anything, despite how well it can keep up its side of a conversation . If you have domain expertise in what it is generating, the limitations are very clear.
My concern is for the next generation of students coming up with pervasive AIs. Will they learn how to write critically if they rely on an LLM? Will LLM quality go to shit because it’s just being trained on an internet full of dodgy LLM output?
I think it's generally an interesting technology with a lot of uncontroversially beneficial applications - things like voice transcription, drug discovery/response prediction, defect detection, language translation, tumor segmentation, weather forecasting/early warning systems, EEG decoding, malware detection, or OCR. No longer having to memorise FFMPEG commands also doesn't seem that evil to me.
Automation of tasks is something we all already benefit from constantly, like to keep food fresh without having someone collect ice from mountains, but I do agree with the concern that under capitalism it tends to lead to concentration of wealth. I think the productive path is along the lines of UBI or broader economic changes, allowing everyone to capture the utility, not through rejecting the technology itself and definitely not a hatemob against an open source developer from deciding to take a handy opt-in tool as a stand-in for evil itself.
It seems as though the maintainer moved it into an external plugin because they were told, loud and long, that “shoving AI [there] [was] totally the wrong idea.”
It’s certainly an example of how public backlash can change the discourse, but it is not an example of why it was wrong to put AI there.