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Comment by me_me_me | Hacker News Reader

i am not sure if the goal is to loose senior staff.

They are usually most valuable to the company.

That is not how layoffs worked in companies I have worked at. The goal is to reduce 'head count' and in the real world cost.

They rank you by pay and tenure. Then decided if they can do without you. It almost rarely has anything to do with how good you are. But more 'my project would not finish in x time if y was gone'. Then they decide to keep the whole project or not and if they get rid of the project that means maybe 15 other people can go too.

After a particular level in many large companies you become a cost number instead of a person.

What you are working on may seem important. At least it is to you. But in the grand scheme of things most of what we work on is ethereal. I have been in this industry coming up on 30 years now. Very little of what I have ever worked on is even in production anymore. Thousands and thousands of lines of code, just gone, of no use anymore. I just hope whatever I did work on can help me with the next few thousand.

In my experience, the problem is that junior, extremely motivated people, who are often the ones doing the impactful work, cannot thrive and learn from experienced people in WFH environments.

do those junior extremely motivated people who are doing the impactful work want to work in the office?

Well, not everybody, but it's quite powerful to be around people who actually care in person about how you are doing. It's a beautiful dynamic. It depends on the actual company and situation, but yes, there are people who find it quite depressing to get a MacBook sent to their home address and never experience a great office. I'm not saying it's the only way. I can understand WFH is extremely practical for most people with kids. At the same time, it deprives people starting their careers of fast learning experiences. There are plenty of examples of extremely successful remote-only companies that attract young talent, but there are also examples of the opposite.

Now if only there was actually a great office and not a shitty open space...

Agree.

do those junior extremely motivated people who are doing the impactful work want to work in the office?

Much more so than the senior people I find. Post Covid, as soon as we were first allowed back to the office if we wanted, I observed that the under 30s were the first to return.

No life commitments and a social network in a new community built around their officemates

Not sure whether intentional or not, but I read that as "those people with ambitions have no backs to ride on".

I rather meant to teach them stuff... It's not for everybody, but a substantial part of engineers, I would think, really enjoy teaching and passing on their experience and know-how. That's not only limited to engineers, of course.

In my experience, junior, extremely motivated people, who are often the ones doing the impactful work, can thrive and learn in any environments.

The structures and shackles are for the mid employees.

I would actually agree with that, notwithstanding what I have written. I still think the learning curve can be steeper in that case and actually more fun.

>cannot thrive and learn from experienced people in WFH environments.

Because?

I think it is common, especially early in a career, that it is more important to approach people proactively. There is a barrier to asking for help. It can be quite challenging if you are new and maybe a bit shy (not uncommon, as we know, in the STEM field) to get the most out of it. Just sharing my experience, not saying it's impossible.

It really depends on the company. Where I work, a lot of the senior employees tend to be actively hindering innovation and progress, more concerned about having a say and being seen doing their little rituals. It's fascinating to watch them sideline and destroy project after a project. The best I understand it's because anything new and competitive puts their little wheelhouses in a bad light, so it cannot stand.

Perhaps they prefer docile to senior.

Bean counter types claim these people cost too much!!

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