Germany trials the four-day workweek: "Free time is invaluable"
welcometothejungle.com
welcometothejungle.com
Also, according to FT[1] and Bloomberg[2], it seems the German government wants to get people to work more hours, not less, to combat economic slowdown and labor shortages, basically contradicting this article.
So which is it? Do you fix labor shortages and "the economy" by getting people to work longer hours or less hours?
Well of course, I don't think anyone expects to work 4 days and keep the full salary and the same accrual of holidays.
Examples of increases in quality of life include things like living into one’s 80s and 90s using dialysis and heart surgeries and new medicines.
Examples of changes in supply of resources include things like energy, labor, and a hospitable natural environment.
All of these things are constantly in flux, and automation sometimes outpaces them, and sometimes does not.
It's easy to see how it benefits you when only you're working 4 days/week but the rest of society on which your first world lifestyle depends, keeps working 5 days/week, being at your disposal for the same amount of time, while your enjoying more time off than the rest.
Need a doctor? Sorry, you'll have to wait more time now because now all are working 4 days/week. Need to go grocery shopping? Sorry, everything is closed today. Need a plumber? Sorry, most are off today as well.
There's no free lunch here. Moving the entire society to 4 days/week would require massive shifts economically and socially.
Meanwhile the number of doctors and plumbers etc. is not a fixed constant but driven by demand. There are plenty of qualified people currently doing useless work or unemployed who could fill those roles with the right incentives.
It is, but someone still has to work to keep society going in those "time off days". Doctors can't treat the same amount of patients in 4 days as in 5. Teachers can't squeeze the curriculum in 4 days. Customer support can't squeeze everyone in 4 days. Etc.
So how will you increase the number of doctors and other staff to work in the days the existing staff are off?
You can't just magic more workers out of thin air, especially now when we're already in a labor shortage in many fields like healthcare with everyone already working 5 days/week and with fertility declining in the west.
My company has been trying 4 day weeks twice a month since 2022 without salary decrease, the trial have been mostly conclusive, and we'll probably move forward and have 4 day weeks all weeks at some point. That's the stated goal anyway. The main difficulty is probably the fact that customers don't have 4 days and expect support all week. A partial answer to this is people have been able to pick 2 additional days off each month no questions asked, and not everybody like the same days off so it has been working out.
Studies show productivity is kept at the same level when companies switch to 4 day week, but people are happier and feel more rested (which is why there are more productive, there's probably also the fact you don't have to worry about life stuff as much at work since you can do many things that need to be done during the week during the off day). Since we produce the same amount, I don't see why the full salary should not be kept.
That's a huge statement there. Do you have any evidence that this is the case for everyone at every company no matter what?
Of course not, you are asking for the impossible.
But we have evidences that 4 day weeks boost productivity at least in some settings. If you are interested in the topic, look up "4 day week productivity" on a web search engine, or "4 day week" / "4 day workweek" on HN [1,2] if you want previous discussions about this. The topic is not new here. You'll find many posts where companies think it works.
[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
You are not really going to get your average companies to participate in those kind of studies anyway. Those companies want warm bodies and it has nothing to do with empirical evidence
I have not seen study stating this though.
Of course it is. Too many people with free time will just get bored and stray away from the path of the righteous so that would be a direct way to hell.
(too many people actually believe that, see the discussions about unconditional basic income)
A good start would be to stop producing so much junk.
(edit: downvoters: interested in what you think, please develop. I think we produce a big amount of useless stuff, and that keeps many human beings pointlessly busy - what's the positive here?)
What amount of work is necessary? Apartment life without personal car? Townhouses with a 1 car garage? Detached single family homes with 2 car driveway with 2 Toyotas? Or is it 1 Toyota and 1 Lexus? A flight to a tropical destination once ever 3 years? Or every year?
You see where this is going.
Not saying it's easy, it might require huge changes, but seen from outside we probably look very silly.
There's a fast food place I discovered recently, they serve your meal in a disposable box. That could be changed to use reusable plates instead. Okay, that can be hard because then the place needs to handle washing the dishes.
They also give disposable glasses if one asks. I can avoid this by bringing my own bottle, in my country nobody would see an issue with this, tap water is free in restaurants by law. If many people do this, that less of these glasses to produce in the first place.
And above all they also unconditionally give you both disposable chopsticks and a disposable fork without asking. I would guess almost half of this stuff is produced to be immediately thrown without even being used a single time. Those could be made reusable too, but there's even a first step that would also cost less time to the restaurant, so double win: let people take what they need. quadruple win, because that's also less waste to handle, and so less effort to take care of the Earth when we inevitably need to do it.
And the disposable cutlery, or wrapping (for groceries, for instance), is only the tip of the iceberg. Think also useless/harmful software, software that is made over and over because nothing is open source and shared. Think cheaply made and/or unrepairable stuff that breaks too early and you need to replace entirely. And again, all the work needed to handle this waste.
There are a lot of low hanging fruits. But how we as a species are organized right now does not handle this very well, does not incentivize it, actually doesn't even care that much and actually incentivizes the contrary and externalizes waste and pollution, mostly.
So yes, that's a pitch for degrowth, that may sound extreme to some, but it should just go without saying. And I'm not even touching the idea that we could (and probably should) lower our comfort, that's free degrowth without hurting comfort!
What I'm proposing here actually improves our comfort, because we have less work to do so more free time, more time with our loved ones, more time doing what you decide to do! It can even be what you do for work, why not, if you like doing this. And maybe more time for boredom and deep thinking, which need more of.
All that junk is making us work more. It's so meaningless to spend so much cumulative time producing pointless things. What a giant waste of time.
there is no such thing as "not more"
The idea is to lower the default weekly working hours while keeping the same salary. If productivity slowly goes up over time, it should be possible.
In my opinion the real problem is that the german tax system incentivises working less instead of more, as the marginal tax increases even for hours worked beyond the 40h work week -> the more you work the less you keep per hour.
This would only work if you clock in 10h on paper, but actually work much less hours from home where nobody tracks how much you actually work, but if have to actually clock in 10h per day at the office, plus commute time, I'll most likely just space out and watch the clock for the rest of those two hours. And then that extra free day per week would be to recover from the long working day at the office nullifying any advantage.
This is 60h / week.
That's not something we should praise. It's probably why healthcare workers are so burned out and make so many mistakes leading to malpractice.
Maybe in certain healthcare cases, longer hours can be more tolerable when you're doing repetitive things you've already done a million times that you can do "on autopilot" without the risk of mistakes, but for mentally intensive tasks where you're constantly thinking and problem solving and need to stay sharp, there's no way I can pull 60h/week of productivity. I'm not even fully productive for the whole 40h, let alone more.
I could pull 60h weeks if I were working on my own projects being my own boss answering only to myself and working at my own pace and deadlines, but not part of the soul crushing corporate machine with constant bullshit interruptions, meetings, theatrics and management breathing down my neck.
Unless the marginal tax goes over 100% don't you still earn more total by working more?
For example, regardless of taxes, working 8 hours can mean you have dinner with your family. Working 12 hours means more money, but missing dinner with family so the additional 4 hours would need to be compensated more than the first 8.
Taxes would be similar. If setup the tax rate so high, say 90% for the amount of income one would earn for the average wage beyond 8 hours, then there wouldn’t be much reason to give up your leisure time.
Kind of related to this concept:
https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/questions-...
> Under these provisions, certain employers (called applicable large employers or ALEs) must either offer health coverage that is “affordable” and that provides “minimum value” to their full-time employees (and offer coverage to the full-time employees’ dependents), or potentially make an employer shared responsibility payment to the IRS, if at least one of their full-time employees receives a premium tax credit for purchasing individual coverage on a Health Insurance Marketplace (Marketplace), also called the Exchange.
It's like when FAANG comes up with a new cool shinny tool (MapReduce, React, Tensorflow). Even if not everyone is using it, your will see articles saying "The tech industry now uses [insert shinny tool]" even if most of the companies are running [insert old tool].
If it were the most influential companies in Germany, that "over 1,000 employees" number would've been orders of magnitude bigger.
There's a labor shortage so you'd think wages would go up, but if people make more per hour then that just means they're going to work less.
And migration is already at levels that gives fuel to right wing populists.
Given that there is a shortage of workers, companies here increasingly have to compete for workers by means of improving working conditions and worker freedoms.
Paying rent and living expenses in Germany on only 20h work? Can I ask in which city? Can't be a big one I presume like Munich, Berlin, Hamburg, etc. where rent is expensive.
Or you earn a FAANG wage where 50% of that is 100% of a regular full time wage.
A few in my (tech) company have done this over the last while and it’s been great for me so far. Definitely wouldn’t say no to 100% salary for 80% time as in the trial but for those with developer salaries and the cost of living (where I live at least) I think most could live and save quite comfortably with the reduction, definitely recommend it.
Takeaway message from this is to not let employees/teams pick which day they can claim as free.
Also, partially moving a company to this new scheme is asking for trouble.
Be bold and ignore what sounds "safe".
https://telex.hu/gazdasag/2024/02/16/magyar-telekom-iroda-mu...
https://telex-hu.translate.goog/gazdasag/2024/02/16/magyar-t...
>Why The 4-Day Workweek Is Gaining Momentum
>Four-day workweek: Firms in UK make the move permanent after world’s biggest trial
There you go, a bunch of honest 4 day workweek headlines I found with the most basic google search. Now you can forever dispell yourself of the idea that dishonesty is particularly prevalent in headlines about 4 day workweeks.
To call this “odd” implies that other news-sources are well known for their headlines accurately representing the body of their articles?
The last couple weeks I've been "quiet trialing" it, working Friday morning to finish things up and then keeping the afternoon light. It really helps me to come into Monday refreshed, raring to go like I am after a good vacation.
If I'm really feeling exhausted in the afternoon, I'm really good at taking a 25 minute "power nap", my mind goes from slightly foggy to crystal clear, and if I take it well before 5pm my sleep for the night is typically not impacted at all. It's taken some training to get to the point that I can quickly shift into sleep and then snap out of it, but it's amazingly effective.
I think the second half of a Friday, especially an end-of-sprint Friday, is quite lackadaisical anyway, so its probably a good bang-for-buck perk for the company.