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Comment by ThrowawayR2 | Hacker News Reader

The deep irony of praising autodidacticism in lieu of getting a degree is that one has to be a world class autodidact to succeed in a Ph.D program and that a university is stuffed to the brim with resources to support that autodidacticism: libraries, lab facilities, experts, etc. for both graduate and undergraduate studies. And not in just in one field, but dozens and dozens of fields.

A real autodidact would be in seventh heaven at a university. These kids are just trying to put a good face on being "too cool for school".

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The problem is that while they have most of the good learning resources locked away, they are frequently aligned towards other goals, and they are structured in ways that make that clear.

I didn't go to college because I was rebuffed by the sharp edges. And honestly it is difficult to not resent at times my peers that both did and failed to use the resources available to them.

I wish it was just accepted that ability comes in different forms from different sources, and should be cultivated wherever it is at, without social gatekeeping, status games, etc. The banality and simultaneously seriousness of these rituals repulses me.

Because the principle you suggest applies in reverse as well. If an autodidact knows more than someone with those resources available - then they are so much better equipped to learn the material that they should be an automatic hire and you should ignore anyone else unless they are significantly more capable/learned.

University, and especially grad school, is really an amazing environment. Because of these tools and resources and because everyone involved has learning as its prime drive.

We should normalize sabaticals were you go back to university for a summer or what not.

Companies just don't want to give people long stretches of time off of course.

However, I suspect that another important dynamic is that it's essentially impossible at a small firm because there aren't a lot of people to cover the workload. Fast forward and you now have 5,000 people some reasonable portion having been there for 5+ years. OK, how do you initiate a sabbatical program that doesn't lead to a ton of people taking time off or screwing the long-term employees?

Being at university helps but accessing those resources doesn’t necessarily require attending, which is out of reach for many people for many different reasons. When I was in high school I emailed a few professors at my local university (Caltech/MIT/Ivy league tier) and they allowed me to audit graduate level classes, participate in labs and group projects, and sponsored visiting faculty status so I could officially borrow books and lab equipment. Maybe this doesn’t scale if everyone starts pestering professors at research universities, but everyone I’ve met in academia has been extremely receptive to helping autodidacts access university resources without attending. At the coal face of a university, everyone is still dedicated to education afterall.

If you do all that why not just enroll and get a degree while you’re at it?

My guess is the $$$$ cost?

Sure, but you’re getting something that will help you get a good job in the future, so it seems like a good investment.

Most of those top universities have very aggressive scholarship programs for low income students. A surprising number of students at those universities pay little or nothing to attend. It’s actually more rare to pay full price than to pay nothing at all at many universities!

Yes

Except for the @ss-kissing, the unnaturally inflexible academic environment, the pressure for publishing, etc

Then academia becomes hell

What you described is similar to a typical work environment you should be ready for, unless you were born rich.

I've been to both (funny you assume otherwise), it's not even a question.

The worse jobs are usually worse than the average academic environments but the averages are far apart

In a typical phd program you have a lot more freedom (as long as you publish), a lot more flexibility than in a typical 9-5 job, and a lot less politics on average. Pressure is about the same.

And a risible salary

And the possibility of doing a post-doc somewhere else for another dogsht salary (maybe complementing it with some teaching), then to maybe be able to continue in academia.

just go around YT and see the average opinion on a PhD and postdocs. Or google PhD and "mental health issues".

Not sure who are you arguing with. I compared learning on your own with learning in grad school. To prepare for real world jobs. Grad school is better imo.

This sounds like justification for a culture of hazing.

Well, then it's time to reinvent academic publishing. (Personally, I've found off-the-cuff personal blogs can be far more insightful than oh so many stuffy academic articles I've read. If there's one thing about programming culture I've gleaned: those of us who connect the rubber to the road actually know something about knowledge-production.)

P.s. I think you can say "ass" on the internet. Hell, in 2024, you can practically kiss ass on the internet.

Being too cool for school is cool though. I'm personally very glad that information is no longer monopolized by institutions and that any self starter can learn anything they like without permission or expense. I'm too cool for school and I love it. Debt free for one thing, adn free to pursue whatever catches my interest at any time.

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