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Comment by TillE | Hacker News Reader

I haven't done web development since the late 90s, so quite a lot of what people talk about (from frontend frameworks to Kubernetes) is total gibberish to me. That's fine, it's not something I'm interested in even as a hobby.

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I have done web development since the 90s and I can tell you authoritatively that most of what people talk about, like those frontend frameworks, are gibberish.

Or at least, they're not worth the hype they're given. The wheel is constantly turning, and the hot new framework of today is just a re-hash of something already done years ago with a pretty facade.

You probably learned the actual fundamentals of the web, which is exactly what a good developer should do. Nowadays "frontend devs" don't know how to make the most basic functionality without React, Bootstrap, and 99 other pieces of bloat.

Frankly the stuff I look at just disgusts me on a fundamental level. Like as soon as you decide to use React, you've just mandated up to several megabytes of JavaScript simply to render your HTML. That's abhorrent.

Yes, web development has become extremely complicated and has constant churn. This despite the fact that most of it isn't doing all that much. It's embarrassing.

I last successfully did front end dev in the late 90s ans veryearly 00s. I'm very back end these days. Front end work feels incredibly frustrating, between things like UI/UX design, responsive layouts, async, handling data into whatever thing it is you're trying to populate, etc. The whole lot is a massive nightmare to even try getting back in to. It's frustrating to the point t where I look at back and end know that I can handle with authority some pretty fun and fascinating use cases that require deep expertise across many fields - and make it performant + cost efficient et , but I can barely get a front end together and even then it looks and works like crap.

Honestly it's only frustrating if you approach it with an "all or nothing" mindset. Your site doesn't have to be all-singing, all-dancing. In fact it's probably better off being simple. To wit, you don't need async/AJAX stuff (unless you're making a chat app or something).

You definitely don't need a framework and you might actually be able to avoid using JavaScript altogether. I use jQuery only because I like the elegant/terse syntax and I struggle to think of any type of "ordinary" website where you'd need anything else.

If you approach frontend like "I need to use React/Angular" then yeah, you're gonna bash your head against a wall, because it's an entire new ecosystem and paradigm to learn.

I would like to have something that looks nice and modern, has a good user experience, and is responsive. Those three requirements take me pretty close to the "too ahrd" rabbit hole most of the time. Not always, just often enough.

Apart from one or two things that are currently not implemented well by the browsers, your requirements can be met without a single line of JS or even a server at that. And you may very well not run into those one or two things.

Could I ask you to elaborate futher?

I dont see how a single line of js can remove the need for front end design, complexities of scaling, theme choices, and user friendly design patterns with interactivity.

Running LLMs in the browser and creating AI-enhanced experiences is where is the innovation in the frontend lies now. UI frameworks is a matter of taste, there is simple, complex and bloated/corporate alternatives.

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