The Twitch DJ Program
blog.twitch.tv
blog.twitch.tv
Additionally, Twitch isn't providing any features to help DJ creators make up for this loss in earnings, so this is effectively just a way for Twitch to avoid DMCA lawsuits while making it easier for DJs to stream.
Twitch is softening the earnings (and PR) blow by absorbing the costs for one year, after which DJ creators are going to be in for a rude awakening.
I see this as a huge, industry-changing event.
Right now, there's no big DJs streaming on Twitch. There's also no big streamers that became big because they're DJing. DJs on Twitch do exist, but we're talking dozens to hundreds of listeners, a small but very consistent community. I can only name one DJ that can consistently reach a couple of thousand, but she's more of a variety streamer, not exclusively a DJ.
The really big story here is that DJing stops being this legal gray area on a major platform. If record label owners woke up one day with the intention to remove every DJ set from YouTube, or SoundCloud, or Twitch, there's nothing anyone could do about it.
Up until this point, Mixcloud was the only platform available where a random nobody can perform or publish a DJ set without having to worry about it being taken down. The problem with Mixcloud is that most listeners don't want a separate app just for DJ sets, they'd rather listen to them on an app they already use, like Soundcloud or YouTube. So naturally, DJs navigate towards constantly living in this shady gray area, accepting the risk that the community they've gathered could simply vanish one day, despite there existing a 100% legal method that every DJ is aware of.
Now, there's a mainstream platform that has, for the lack of a better word, "regulated" this whole thing. If Twitch does the bare minimum to promote this (as in sign a couple of relatively mainstream DJs to attract a new crowd), I can absolutely see this being very beneficial for the random "nobodies" already DJing on Twitch in front of dozens to hundreds of people.
I will also will be interested if the paycut is variable. I mean should I pay through the nose if don’t stream any big A-listed musicians?
You'd be surprised how many artists own 100% of their rights these days though- people have gotten way more aware of the business side of things in the past 20 years, and there are things like label deals where the rights roll back to the artist after x years.
At least, when you consider anything in excess of a 30% platform fee, the amount Apple, Google, Steam etc. consider to be reasonable, price gouging.
From the music creators perspective, a DJ is a platform showcasing their music, so it makes sense they'd pay the DJ some fee.
If it's less of a service platform, and more like a retail store, than taking a larger amount like the 50-70% might be reasonable, but it feels like a bit of a stretch, as retail stores have very high overhead costs in comparison.
I wonder what the real calculation was to get to that 30-50%, and if the DJ's really do consider it to be a lot.
Proceeds to diminish DJs’s value. A mix isn’t a playlist, nor a platform. Comparing a DJ’s mix to a retail store hawking individual songs makes it seem like you don’t have much appreciation for mixes.
Pretending that the DJ's experience matters more than the music they play is cringeworthy for any DJ worth their salt. Nobody beside self-centered assholes think this way about themselves.
And this is not even getting to how a lot of DJs don't even pay for their music.. big names have a constant stream of free promos coming their way, and you can sign up on any number of promo lists from labels to get their latest releases delivered in your inbox. It used to be that they mailed out physical vinyl, for free!
Odeza was nominated for a Grammy his stuff is so good. DJing has evolved into performances of live music production. Apache brings an orchestra with him, Illenium has a full band, Sullivan King writes and performs all his own licks and plays them during his performances, Griz's saxophone game was legendary.
Most DJs don't produce their own music, therefore they just play other people's music. Those that aim for international fame have to produce their own music, which then becomes a part (but not the entirety) of their DJ sets. Those that have been producing their own music for quite a while (like Odesza) do have enough that they don't need to play other people's tracks, but that gets pretty stale pretty quickly. If you've listened to Odesza once, it's gonna be pretty identical the next time, similar to a band performing a concert (but even more identical).
Then there's also labels, which are like the crown jewel of electronic music. It's not enough to just make music, you have to find a label that will publish it. The bigger the label, the bigger the exposure. Not just in terms of sales, but because DJs/producers associated with a label tend to boost each other's careers by playing each other's tracks (with the added benefit of not having to worry about copyright). The really really big labels also organise their own parties and festivals. To name some of the biggest ones: Ultra Music Festival (UMF) = Ultra Records, Electric Daisy Carnival (EDC) = Insomniac Records. So, if you consistently get your music released by Insomniac/Ultra, odds are they're gonna invite you play in front of hundreds of thousands of people, even if 95% of them have never heard of you. That's how you get like 5 headliners that are there to get the people to come and 30 or so supporting acts that are there to play before them, warming up the crowd before the main act.
There's this excellent crowdsourced website (https://www.1001tracklists.com/) where fans keep track of all of that. If there's a recording of a DJ set available anywhere online, odds are some fan has gone through the trouble of identifying most of the tracks. Click on a couple of sets on the homepage, check out the list of artists whose tracks they play, and you'll see all of this in action. In some cases, all original. In some cases, all released by one label. In most cases, mostly other people's music.
Jokes aside, kudos to you for coming up with what's been the only available legal option for the past decade or so! Judging by this, your platform will still have some advantages:
> No Vods, Clips, or Highlights
> DJs opted into the program will not be able to save VODs, Clips, or Highlights to Twitch. VODs, Clips and Highlights involve different rights than live streams. We are creating additional promotional and discovery opportunities to extend the reach and impact of DJ content.
Which, as an ex-PRO employee, makes me a bit sad to see.
I know this is a complicated subject but thats how it feels on my end.
> DJs opted into the program will not be able to save VODs, Clips, or Highlights to Twitch. > Our program does not allow you to stream pre-release tracks
Those two conditions alone show you how much they have no clue what a DJ does and this new "program" is just a way for the majors to be even more greedy.
I also love how the problem they say they want to solve has the most meaningless description ever and is not actionable at all.
This seems like double-dipping.
Probably works differently everywhere though...
And it is essentially the same thing with Twitch here, as Twitch pays the necessary fees that allow the DJ to perform on their platform.
It may be different in some other countries indeed. I think in Germany, home of the infamous GEMA, DJs have to pay a fee in certain conditions, in addition to what the venue pays.
Music is sold and consumed in single-song increments, and that's silly. That's what the industry wants, not all consumers. It's like if you could only eat one kind of food ingredient at a time. There are absolutely amazing artists taking these ingredients and, like a chef, chopping and mixing them together in wildly creative ways. However, accessing this entertainment is very challenging because there is no legitimate online business model for it. This leaves DJ's with a big incentive to only perform their best material live where they can monetize it. Once there is an online business model where they can get paid decently for this material, music consumption will change dramatically in this catagory.
Imagine being able to tune into or stream different Vegas club mixes for your party at home, or at a bar, or at the gym? Imagine a netflix of all the best DJ sets of all time?
Twitch is doing some of the "icebreaking" here, but music streaming is a huge business, and Spotify/apple, and all the others will follow, and there will likely be one or more services that specialize in this.
I use those all the time for different activities, like a playlist for working out, another one for relaxing, different ones for different board games, etc.
But I've never been to a club where a DJ plays (just not really my thing, too loud and not my kind of music). What do they do? Why might someone want to stream one instead of using a playlist?
Edit: there’s lots more to say about DJing of course, maybe someone else will chime in. One aspect to keep in mind is that DJing is important primarily in dance music. If you don’t go dancing at clubs you may not be aware how different dance music is to traditional music meant for listening. A lot of the focus of dance music is generating tension (“build”) and releasing it in a pleasant manner (“drop”). Doing that at a pace that works for the energy level of the crowd at that moment, without unexpected shifts in energy levels, is not trivial. It requires taste and experience, and aims to create a more cohesive and unified experience for the dancers than a playlist could.
Phew! Can you tell I recently got into DJing? ;-)
Although I've never really been the "clubbing" type, I do other types of dancing (swing, salsa, Scottish, country, etc.). They usually go off playlists, but I can see how having a live DJ who interactively adjusts the music to the crowd's energy level would be fun. I'd love to experience something like that!
In terms of streaming, it would also be really cool to get a live DJ for D&D and other board game nights, who can dynamically respond to what's happening in the game world and blend the tracks (and sound effects?) appropriately. Does anyone do stuff like that? I'd pay for that service!
For D&D, have you seen https://tabletopy.com/ ? I think I saw it here on HN a while ago.
Lol, that's pretty cool. Like a soundboard for D&D.
Having grown up with the D&D video games like Baldur's Gates 1 & 2 and NWN, the ambient music and sounds is something I miss about the tabletop experience. The cities and the crowd noises, the dungeons with subtle chains and screams and caves with dripping water reverberating, the background music that stays out of the way and then amps up in the prelude to combat and gets all romantic for dialog, etc. Adds a level of immersion that's hard to get in tabletop unless the DM is heavy on production value. Still fun, just different!
I'm now imagining a Netflix of the best DJ sets of all time. It doesn't make any money.
Musicians similarly have to "perform their best material live where they can monetize it". DJing really is part of a party, without the party, there's really next to nothing left, particularly now the technical aspect has been as good as automated thanks to CDJs.
We're also more than 40 years now since this was a skilled task: https://youtu.be/uapn-mknXVU?si=3Ulv9NMoil7kMRR6 DJs weren't on big money then either.
Sounds great that seemingly it coves a lot of the mainstream music, but what's the procedure if I happen to stream something that isn't a part of that? And how can I check what songs from my library are cleared to play/stream without having to actually play them and "find out" after the fact? The pages about this program seem to miss something vital practical information.
> If you stream pre-release tracks, your channel may be subject to enforcement and penalties including termination of your stream and suspension of your channel.
What a shame... Half the fun is finding absolutely new tracks and playing those. But I guess overall this program is a step in the right direction.
TL;DR build sets out of the “twitch licensed works” catalog
> I don’t play major pop records or much major label music. Does this program apply to me?
> We're always looking to grow the Twitch DJ catalog. If you're interested in chatting with us about this, please reach out to dj-catalog-requests@justin.tv.
TL;DR Email them about the tracks you want added (and pray, probably).
> TL;DR Email them about the tracks you want added (and pray, probably).
I think that part is about labels/rights holders wanting to add tracks to the catalog from their side, not for DJs to request tracks to be added. But maybe I read that wrong, worth a try at least.
Thanks :)
My understanding is that this practice is still technically illegal (since live-broadcasting music without recording it is still something you need copyright permission for), but significantly more difficult for record companies to crack down on.
By law they can't be copyrighted since they were generated by AI.
https://www.nmpa.org/twitch-makes-deal-with-nmpa-but-streame...
https://www.nmpa.org/nmpa-and-twitch-announce-agreement/
That’s primarily via the PROs - ASCAP, BMI, SESAC.
E.g. ASCAP says “Fortunately, most popular live-streaming platforms, such as YouTube, Facebook, Instagram Live, Soundcloud and Twitch are licensed by ASCAP”
See third accordion here: https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing
I’m assuming because DJ performances via twitch are considered non-interactive streaming they - like Pandora’s free tier - don’t need a mechanical licence, at least in the US.
How that then translates to other territories though I’m not entirely sure. In Europe I’m pretty sure they’d need to have a mechanical licence in place whether or not they are interactive.
It’s crazy to me that the misconception that DJs are playing original music is still around. Even DJs who also produce music play 90%+ records from other people.