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Comment by bnchrch | Hacker News Reader

Honestly. This is a pretty good advertisement for Apple.

I appreciate the effort that they've put into making my device less valuable to thiefs.

It’s interesting though… it’s still worth something to thieves, they still can recycle the screen, buttons, case etc. I’ve had my iPhone stolen in recent years too, people can’t resist. Don’t get me wrong, it does feel good to stick it to the perp but doesn’t apple itself have the most to gain from locking most of the value away? The second hand market is completely gated by them. Broken FaceID? You need a new phone…

This is a win win for Apple

Aren’t most of the parts tied to the motherboard?

Each generation seems to add an additional part. I know they serialize Face ID module, maybe the screen, the battery gives an indicator in the settings menu that its not OEM but it still works. I doubt the case or volume buttons are tied to the phone but what else is left? The Antenna or USB-C port?

Screen is locked. If you do your own replacement you have to call Apple to get it relinked to the mobo.

well duh, the most valuable company in the world isn't going do something that isn't profitable for them, but in this case their interests align with their customers in a powerful way.

what would be really great is if we could engineer systems to develop alignments between relationships like that all the time, but hey, we live in an imperfect world

Apple puts effort into making you go to them for repair parts. Any deterrence against thieves is simply a fringe benefit. Don't credit them for something that isn't actually their goal.

I think it is pretty clearly a goal - when you create marketing campaigns around an aspect of your product (and Apple has around this sort of security), delivering on your promises is clearly a goal.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the original impetus for this variety of security was a prompt like “what are some objectives that support us creating vendor lock in” - that’s how organizations end up with multiple interconnected objectives

The purpose of marketing is to bend the truth to something that is going to attract customers. It doesn't have anything to do with the actual goals of the company.

Deterrence against thieves is a pretty big benefit.

Meanwhile there's massive amount of low-quality parts i have to wade through when wanting to order a replacement battery.

When buying my child her first iPhone we went through so many used devices at the local phone store which had all been refurbished or repaired using sub standard 3rd party screens.

Being able to see Apple’s warning on the iPhone 11 and up "Unable to verify this iPhone has a genuine Apple display” meant we were able to find a phone which was still stock.

I’m a big proponent of the right to repair but in this case Apple’s repair deterrence feature had a big benefit for us.

These days, it's not worth it to steal an iPhone. It's a useless brick.

That Apple knows where it's at.

I disagree. There are a lot of uses for an iCloud locked iPhone, such as a music player, podcast player, security camera, etc.

Edit: I should clarify that the embedded video clearly showed that a number of the iPhones she had were still able to be used. Perhaps the owner didn't or wasn't able to iCloud lock them, but that's what I originally meant.

No, if an iPhone is iCloud locked, you're not able to use the phone unless you enter the password of the account.

>if an iPhone is iCloud locked

but that still leaves the possibility that it isn't locked, and therefore it is worth it for theives to steal it. Even just the chance that it's not locked would make it worth stealing.

Yes, but your response doesn't make sense in context. GP specifically said that there are a lot of uses "for an iCloud locked iPhone", parent debunked it.

None of these work when the device is marked as lost/stolen.

This isn’t true. The iPhone is locked down over iCloud. I assume remote lockdown also works while the phone is turned off or on airplane mode (as Find My Phone does by using the passive Apple mesh network)

>I assume remote lockdown also works while the phone is turned off or on airplane mode (as Find My Phone does by using the passive Apple mesh network)

It doesn't need to be. If you have a passcode, the phone can't be used unless the correct passcode is entered. If you try to factory reset it, you can't get past the setup wizard if find my iphone was enabled for the phone prior to the wipe. Note this doesn't require that the phone receive notification that the phone has been marked stolen. So the only way you can use the phone is if find my iphone wasn't set up prior to it being lost.

Clearly this isn't true, as her phone got stolen.

Yup. I assume there is plenty of value to be found selling donor boards and other parts of the iPhone. Not saying it's a repair shop's fault if they end up with motherboards of a stolen phone, but if I were a thief dealing with an activation-locked phone, my first idea would be a jailbreak, and if that fails, then disassemble the phone and sell the parts.

Presumably thieves already do these things (and more sophisticated things) to extract value out of stolen iPhones.

You really have to be careful with third-party iPhone repairs, especially in China. I had my phone repaired once, and when I got it back...it kind of worked, but they swapped out another part for something that was broken to ensure repeat business. That was in the iPhone 1 days though.

Its been about 17 years since the iPhone 1 days...

Yes, I'm old. This was in 2009 I think (I bought it in 2007). The e-markets are a lot different now (you can still find obscure shady offices repairing older hardware), and iPhone repairers that were scamming people are probably long gone.

What is on the board that can be used? Obviously the SOC is out. Maybe just the RAM or Flash? Is there really anything else?

> Clearly this isn't true, as her phone got stolen

Older iPhones are still in the wild. I wouldn't expect every pickpocket to be adept at differentiating them at a glance.

But that still has the same result, doesn't it? "Anti-theft" measure doesn't prevent the theft, only prevents third party repairs.

The average thief probably doesn't even distinguish between Apple and Android phones. A literal pickpocket is only going to have as information the outline of a phone-shaped thing in your pocket. If they lift it off of you and can't use it, they've still stolen it.

> still has the same result, doesn't it?

I can tell at a glance if someone's on an iPhone or not. I can't as similarly which generation they're on.

The FCC, at the very least, seems to find merit in the deterrence value of such measures [1]. (From a purely-retributive standpoint, I find some satisfaction in knowing someone stole a brick that needs to be parted out, versus getting a working device.)

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-39237

> I can tell at a glance if someone's on an iPhone or not.

How? Most people have a phone case and then all you can see is the case. Pretty much all modern phones are the same shape.

> The FCC, at the very least, seems to find merit in the deterrence value of such measures

People don't like it when someone steals their phone, so they demand the government Do Something, so the government proposes to Do Something, regardless of whether the something is effective. Classic politician's syllogism.

> From a purely-retributive standpoint, I find some satisfaction in knowing someone stole a brick that needs to be parted out, versus getting a working device.

The modern world isn't any fun. "I willingly compromised my own ability to repair my phone so a hypothetical thief might be put out."

People should be carrying around decoy phones that are full of sticky glitter and skunk scent, boobytrapped with blasting caps. If you're going to take revenge then do it well.

i see homeless people in SF disassembling iphones so clearly they have routed around this

Seriously? There has to be a story here. You're saying they sit on the street with multiple phones, like a repair shop?

yep, although i've only seen this once (at the intersection of oak & baker). it surprised my economic intuition as i would expect them to be pawning off the whole phone and then someone later on in the supply chain doing the disassembly

It gets stripped down for parts. Many of the individual components are valuable

The higher value parts are locked down also.

I wonder if that includes the screen or not? Is it possible to lock down an iPhone screen these days, or can you use it as a replacement for another iphone whose screen is busted?

The screens have been locked for a few years now. If you replace it you have to call an Apple hotline to get the new screen relinked to the mobo.

> It's a useless brick

Unless the owner falls for one of these texts, right? Isn't that the entire point of the linked article?

Yes exactly; they must have a non-zero success rate. Few years back my friend's iPhone got stolen, and it was more or less the same kind of stuff.

Don’t expect reasonable behavior from a phone snatcher.

Then are so many iPhones stolen every day? They're not just being thrown in the bin

Where I live thieves now demand your passcode and iCloud password at gunpoint, along with the phone.

Not so much if it allows the thief to cet contact info of the original owner.

the SIM card will have this information, also if you put your phone in lost mode, it gives you the option to display a contact number

Or plenty of android brands too.

After a hard reset my phone requires that a Samsung or Google account that was previously signed in on the phone be used to gain access.

Kind of annoying cause I used a temp account on a Samsung tablet and now I can't get access to it after a reset unless I take it to Samsung with proof of purchase and id.

Not enough, apparently. She still got robbed of her iPhone and had to buy another one.

I would like it if you could have your stolen phone chat to the police and report its location so they could go arrest the thieves. There doesn't seem much enthusiasm in law enforcement for enforcing those laws though.

There was an interesting approach with VanMoof bikes where the company insured it against theft, and if your £2000 bike disappeared they actually had a team that would go to it's location and ask for it back. The police don't seem that interested in getting stolen stuff though - that was private enterprise.

Still I'd pay for that on a phone if only to get the bastards who snatch the things.

No, they sell the parts if they can't get the phone unlocked. Even if the phone would be a worthless brick, a stolen phone is a phone that the owner will never get back. Fresh e-waste, straight into the landfill I guess. Is this sarcasm?

Parts are less valuable, which leads to lower level of theft overall.

Nobody risks stealing individual bricks from people's front yards. The risk exceeds the reward. The end goal here is to make the phone so useless that nobody even tries to steal it.

No, this is a side effect of Apple striving to design the world's most unrepairable devices, or more accurately, earn more money with overpriced repairs by creating an artifical monopoly on Apple device repairs using part pairing. Why else would there be no option to pair parts for repairs if you can prove that you are the owner of the device?

They often use security as an excuse to be anti-repair.

That doesn't mean they're lying any time they mention security. Many of the things they do really are to benefit the customer. One of those is having strong locks on stolen phones.

Security is often a cloak for anti-consumer measures for companies. For another example, Netflix and friends have adopted the “we noticed suspicious activity on your account” phraseology to dress up their password sharing crackdown as something consumers want.

I know this is a hot take but hear me out.

I think it makes sense these days for Apple to make phones without much care for repairability. Labor is too expensive to bother with spending hours on repairing a phone. Cheaper to produce new one.

The problem with that is the environmental impact of disposable electronics, but Apple is leading the way and using recycled materials, avoiding plastic, becoming carbon neutral etc.

I think this is the direction the industry is generally going to move towards. It makes sense and stops being a problem when the entire product is recyclable and/or uses recycled material in the first place. They’ve been touting their advancements pretty loudly, but I don’t think it’s getting picked up by journalists.

This is a very succinct description of what Apple is trying to achieve. Imagine inside your laptop there are two boxes: the compute and the battery. You can get any of those swapped by Apple. Apple then takes care of the 2 remaining Rs on its own with the box you swapped.

That's what Apple wants.

I learned recently that Apple shreds old devices instead of selling them to keep the price of old-iPhones artificially inflated by limiting supply.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/94386/the-truth-about-apples-fre...

>Apple is leading the way and using recycled materials, avoiding plastic, becoming carbon neutral etc.

How is avoiding plastic better? If you mean by making phone bodies out of metal, that's not better for the environment. It takes a LOT more energy to make things out of metal than plastic, and even though metal is recyclable, that too takes a LOT of energy (high melting point), and for a small item like a phone seems rather unlikely anyway. Plastic is recyclable too, it just isn't done much because people don't want to and it costs too much.

>It makes sense and stops being a problem when the entire product is recyclable and/or uses recycled material in the first place.

Phones are not "recyclable", and likely never will be. There's far too many different materials in them, which can't be readily separated.

If you want to make sure that thieves do not steal iPhones, you need to ensure there is no point in taking them apart for parts.

Which means you need to prove both: you are the owner of the device; and that the parts are not stolen. This means serial number on each part (likely already exists), database of individual parts with "stolen" flag, and a secure way to query this before pairing.

Or don't bother with all that, and just prohibit pairing of parts with unknown origin - which means prohibiting all 3rd party services.

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