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Comment by microtonal | Hacker News Reader

Relevant comment from a previous time a link to this site was posted:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40523902

tl;dr the title is misleading. This comes from the European council (which consists of representatives of member countries) and is not a fact until the European Parliament has voted on it. It is likely that the EP will reject this proposal like earlier attempts.

Yes, we should fight this , but it’s not the ‘EU’ who says this.

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And for the 3rd time people confuse the Council with the Commission ;)

In this particular case, the Council is still debating and amending a proposal by the Commission before it is sent to the EP to actually vote on. So I don't think anything there is truly wrong.

European parliament has no real power, it's a democratic illusion, just like the elections in USSR. You don't believe me? Then explain me how the EP repels an already voted law. It can't.

EP rejected ChatControl once already. So what the heck are you going on about?

EP is a fundamentally a weaker body than its name suggests. The European Council can keep proposing pretty much the same law over and over again until they get a pliant EP that will accept it.

Once accepted, it's almost impossible to repeal the law by the EP because they will need the approval of the EC and Council of the EU, both of which have members that are not directly elected by the people. EC and Council of the EU is also that body which so far has proven to be far more authoritarian in it's approach.

So, the parent is largely correct.

To be fair, most executive bodies of most countries are not directly elected. You don't vote for your Finance Minister or your Secretary of State in any country I know of. It's true that the EP has uniquely little power compared to the legislative bodies of most democratic states though.

... but the executive bodies of most countries aren't the only ones who can propose legislation. If the EP can't act sui iuris, either to change legislation or remove Commission members, that's a really qualitative disability.

But it does have the right to reject any such law before it's accepted.

Which is the relevant part here, not muddying the water by bloviating about something else, right? Having a body that can only vote on/debate on proposals is absolutely not rare across western democracies.

It has real power, it has to approve almost all legislation before it becomes law. It has no initiative and can only act on proposals from the European Commission (for new laws, or repealing old laws, or amending them), which while not directly democratic, has all its members nominated by the governments of EU member states (themselves elected) and confirmed by the EU parliament.

Democracy can be slightly more complex than direct democracy without being a sham like "elections in the USSR".

Last time this came up Parliament stopped it. It’s popular for certain YouTubers and politicians to pretend there’s no accountability but it’s not the case at all.

Not sure how to cross-post here but I think it's a losing game. EC can keep proposing the same law once every year and at some point they will get an EP that approves it. Repealing is impossible unilaterally by the EP. It's an every tightening rachet.

See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40560873

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance

Ultimatly the popular Parliament and the government council can block it, and the leaders of each member government can of course nominate commissioners who do not wish such laws passed

The reality is that democracy if governments want this type of law - hell large numbers of the people do. It’s the problem with democracy.

Certain interests dont like the EU as it’s harder to manipulate than a typical national government and people.

I wish they European Parliament had all the power. Most of the bullshit comes from the Commission, which is the least democratic body of the EU.

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