BYD unveils new hybrid tech as battle with gasoline rivals heats up | Hacker News Reader

BYD unveils new hybrid tech as battle with gasoline rivals heats up

reuters.com

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Cars like this may be a path out for people like me. I want full EV. My partner has range anxiety. In reality we drive at most 40km/day average when we drive except for 1-2 trips a year of 200+km/day. I am confident an EV can handle our need but she isn't.

Rather than argue, a PHEV means for day-to-day we can probably do pure battery, we can handle the recharge load from a lower cost wallplug in the unit (we pre-fitted a 10amp circuit) and our fuel cost will be marginal. For the longer(ish) trips we'll be on the "man, I miss the Turbo on the 2.0 litre car" but you can't have everything. If you want that turbo experience get extreme mode in a Tesla.

I am told the PHEV nowadays use atkinson cycle to power a generator to run the car through the electric CV clutch. So no matter petrol or battery its a one-pedal experience with regen, and that regen means city-cycle you charge the battery more than highway. Noting that if the battery range is 60km and there is a 'pure battery' override knob, I'm good.

I'm looking forward to more phevs that don't have anemic batteries or performance. If my spouse, for example, can't drive on the highway or complete a single commute without burning gas, then she will rarely have the motivation to plug in at home.

Good. Toyota needs to get off their haunches and release something actually competitive. From what I've read the bZ4X is mostly about giving people a bad first experience with EUVs, which is unfortunate because an EUV RAV4 would have been my perfect car.

I've driven a bz4x. It's actually not that bad. It's a decent city car and drives and feels like any other Toyota.

The financing is really competitive too (100-200/mo lease) and the underlying platform was co-developed with BYD.

I'd have considered it if it was eligible for federal tax credits, which it won't be for at least a year.

A lot of the bz4x hate seems to come from a subset of Redditor EV enthusiasts who treat their brand of EV as if it's a defining identity, instead of as a tool to take you from point A to point B.

> Toyota needs to get off their haunches and release something actually competitive

Toyota (like other Japanese companies) is dependent on Japanese government largesse, and METI has stated that Hydrogen Fuel Cell research and Solid State Battery research are Japan's priorities from a energy independence standpoint (they don't own the underlying IP for Li-ion batteries and the entire lithium processing supply chain is still in China, and the SSBs Toyota and Idemetsu are researching use significantly less lithium).

This is reflected in Toyota's research priorities as well, but it looks like they've made some massive breakthroughs in sulfide SSBs that are in the process of being rolled out globally [0][1] (the expanded Toyota battery factory in the North Carolina will be building this battery).

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...

[1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-12/toyota-id...

The financing is likely really good due to regulations that Toyota has consistently fought against, so that's not really a plus.

Good lease deals on compliance cars has been a thing for a while now.

> I've read the bZ4X is mostly about giving people a bad first experience with EUVs

Why would one of the largest car companies in the world purposely create an inferior product when their competitors are already making successful EUVs? That would just make them look incompetent. More likely that old companies have a harder time changing their core competencies?

Electric motors and battery tech are definitely core competencies for Toyota.

Resource curse: it’s profitable for them to do hybrids and ICEs, so they are unable to do anything else well. Sort of like Google Ads vs everything else Google does. It’s not like they couldn’t do it. It’s that the amounts of money are so vastly different that they don’t wanna.

So I’m about to go lease a bz4x today, and I find the EV community’s hatred of the car irrational. It’s a very well put together car that’s behind the curve on range and charging, which isn’t surprising from a company that’s focused on hybrids over pure EVs. No need for a conspiracy theory. Like—why couldn’t Toyota get 300 miles of range and proper fast charging to work? Well, why can’t Tesla put together a suspension that isn’t brutal and an interior that doesn’t fall apart? The companies obviously have different strengths.

In our case we’re looking for a secondary commuter car, so range and charging don’t matter. We were about to pull the trigger on a Model Y, but I worry about my wife’s safety in a car where software updates change key features such as how the cruise control functions with little notice.

Hyundai/Kia?

Also a good choice. But I’m too brown to drive a Korean car. My mom would not approve!

But Japanese cars are ok?

I know you're being funny, but I don't understand the joke: why does brown culture avoid Korean cars?

Prestige consciousness.

Thanks for the explanation

The Korean govt is fine with Korean car companies licensing battery tech from Chinese companies due to existing investments in the space (eg. Samsung has a minority stake in BYD), but Japan's METI has been pushing the Japanese ecosystem to build their own semi-domestic battery ecosystem that is independent of Li-ion batteries.

That's why Toyota and Idemetsu are rolling out sulfide Solid State Battery manufacturing in NC with production starting in 2026.

I had the Kona EV for a while. The back seats are for ants (I was otherwise reasonably happy with it). We are currently running my wife's ICE into the ground, then a Kia is certainly on the short-list.

Because for a heavy car to handle well it must have a stiff suspension. Otherwise it’ll be floaty, especially in the corners, and you’d pan it for that instead.

> software updates change key features such as how the cruise control functions with little notice

That’s news to me. Did I unintentionally risk my (very non-technical) wife’s safety when I gave her my Y?

The reliance on touchscreen controls is why I didn’t recommend my nearly 80 year old father to get a Tesla, despite how much he loves my CT and Y. Not sure what EV would be good for him though. He needs a 200+ mi range and as “dumb” of a UI as he can get. For now he’s keeping his RAV4.

The RAV4 EV exists! It’s also behind the curve but it’s a fun little car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

From a US perspective: It's incredible how the historically undisputed best economy carmakers Honda and Toyota missed the boat on relatively affordable EVs, and how well Hyundai and Kia are killing it.

What amazing is that in China there are many companies with popular EVs just driving around merrily, many of which are barely heard of outside the country. BYD obviously, but also Aion, Leap, Nio, XPeng, it goes on, plus the "old" car companies like Chery, Geely, SAIC, etc. Even Volvo has an electric minivan now in China.

You can have a completely fine EV for maybe 10 thousand US dollars, and a pretty great one for 20. And they're often car-shaped cars or people carriers rather than a blobby crossover or fake-macho SUV (though the rather compensatory Tank, no really, that's the name, hybrids kind of balance it out)

Yes, when I went to Shenzen in late 2023, I was shocked by just how many EVs were on the road. At least 50% of cars on the road.

Teslas are also very popular in China.

Wasn’t there some recent news about imposing tariff on electric car imports? The EU may argue that’s because Chinese cars are made with more CO2 emissions than EU cars (which is an argument that will force honest politicians to look at the spreadsheet). But the US is being less cynical and saying that it is to protect the local industry…

The tariffs for Chinese EVs happened in the US (increased from 25% to 100%), not in the EU.[1]

The CO2 thing is something that is done in France to put conditions on local subsidies for EV purchases, it's not about import tariffs.[2]

The EU does have an ongoing investigation which may result in tariffs, but it is focusing on subsidies in China that would cause unfair competition. EU car manufacturers don't seem to be in favor of tariffs though.[3]

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-69004520

[2] https://www.asiafinancial.com/frances-green-ev-push-cuts-chi...

[3] https://www.dw.com/en/eu-china-ev-tariffs-german-carmakers-f...

Good, we need more phevs even if its just to bridge the gap to full electric. Its too bad its a Chinese company but honestly its simply agrivating getting a phev in aus right now. Im trading in my 2004 petrol car and every dealership trys to get me on a "hybrid" that doesnt plug in. Its been an infuriating time.

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