The 'Deep State' (political lobbying in Washington) | Hacker News Reader

The 'Deep State' (political lobbying in Washington)

theatlantic.com

13 pointsbell-cot29 comments

Where by “work on behalf of pro-Kremlin politicians in Ukraine” they mean the legally elected president of Ukraine whom the US Deep State, personified by Victoria “fuck the EU” Nuland overthrew. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp

I'm tired of Russian propaganda.

Euro maidan was right, just ask some Ukrainians.

I’m tired of Deep State propaganda. Overthrowing the government people democratically voted for is never “right”. Just ask East Ukrainians who elected the president who was later overthrown, and then refused to go along with this bullshit. Or are they not “Ukrainians”?

I agree with you.

What has me worried is not the fact that people have been brainwashed by propaganda but their refusal or inability to see the other side of the argument.

This intransigence goes right up to the highest levels of Western governments. The War in Ukraine is lost yet leaders refuse to accept that and negotiate a peace deal. Not only that, they are trying to escalate the situation by saying its ok to use Western supplied weapons to attack targets in Russia. Russia is a nuclear power for God's sakes. This is reckless behavior. Irresponsible.

Even Thatcher had the wisdom to negotiate with the I.R.A.

it would make sense if your intention was to depopulate the ukraine & maybe buy it up on the cheap (all wars are banker wars?)

i can't make much sense of it beyond that

Well, European elites are keen to get their hands on Western Ukrainian agricultural land. Agriculture in Western Europe is heavily subsidized. So there is that.

Eastern Ukraine is mostly Industrial and would likely lose out to more modern Industry in Europe. So less incentive for Eastern (Russian speaking) Ukrainians to join Europe. Which was one reason why Yanukovich reneged on signing the EU Association Agreement as his political base was mostly in Eastern Ukraine. And the deal was quite "neoliberal", meaning Eastern Ukrainian Industry was going to get shut down without much economic relief. The other was pressure from Putin and the fact that the Russians offered a very attractive counter offer of a deal.

You know most Russian speaking Ukrainians don't speak it anymore. Why? They are dead. Or refuse it because of Russian bombs.

Ukrainians wanted a decent life. Putin didn't like it. So as a consequence he started the war.

60% fewer civilians died in this conflict in 2+ years than in Gaza in 6 months. Official UN data. Also, at least half those killed are killed by Ukrainian artillery. Ukrainian officials are on video calling them non-human, biological waste, “unnecessary”, and calling for ethnic cleansing of Donbass of its 4 million inhabitants. You can easily find this on YouTube. All because these people did not agree to go along with Victoria Nuland’s coup. Moreover, Russia has (thus far) accepted 3M+ Ukrainian refugees. There’s a flash mob on TikTok of them tearing up their Ukrainian passports and showing off Russian ones.

> Official UN data.

Which by their own admission is incomplete and of very poor quality, because no-one lets them count the dead in places like Mariupol. The picture is as muddy as with Jews in Europe during the WWII. Some are refugees, many are unaccounted, and nobody knows where they are. Probably in those mass graves Russians have dug everywhere.

" There’s a flash mob on TikTok of them tearing up their Ukrainian passports and showing off Russian ones. " Are you paid or just so stupid to believe in Russian propaganda?

Again I recommend for others to talk to Ukrainians. Some of them are "Russian speaking". None of them has sympathy for Putin.

Are you so stupid as to not realize that The amount of money we spent in Ukraine could’ve solved homelessness in America 12 times over? Are you so stupid as to overlook the fact that we sell them the missiles to blow themselves up then we come in finance the reconstruction and take their oil to pay for it? Have you heard of that playbook before? Why doesn’t Russia use its Air Force? Why isn’t Russia trying? Well, for one restricting oil helps make Russia rich. There’s so much more going on In this war that Taking advantage of people to enrich themselves. I met a girl making $400,000 a year In Ukraine, vacationing in America, selling military clothing. Stop using the Ukrainians cannon fodder and negotiate a peace deal. There’s no good way this thing can end But there are ways to avoid catastrophic ends

It is funny that on HN American assummes I am American. (Everyone else not, we know each other ) In my country 60% agree to spend the money for Ukrainians (weapons or refugees). "Stop using the Ukrainians cannon fodder " I think we should the Ukrainians themselves and their democratic elected government on these decisions, certainly not the American one. "Why doesn’t Russia use its Air Force? Why isn’t Russia trying?" There are still people thinking the Russian military is good? Lol. They don't use their Air force like you image because they can't . Thanks to Patriots , Iris T, Samp T, Gepard, etc.

They are dead. Killed by Russian bombs.

Also which Deep State. Are you thinking US government is the only state in the world?

Actually no, they’re still right where they were. It’s just that nobody is interested in what they have to say.

one of them is just the president of Ukraine. Clearly nobody listening to him.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about the conflict. Meanwhile my Ukrainian (and pro-Russian) wife from Kharkov is just shaking her head when I show her your embarrassing posts.

You mean I know nothing about the conflict because I insist on the observation that many native Russian speaking Ukrainians refuse to speak Russian because of the war, including the Russian speaking Ukrainian president?

Maybe your wife does not know much about the conflict. How does she feel about glide bombs on her home town, on civilian buildings? What does she think why Ukrainians call the town Charkiv and not Charkow? Can you tell me the answer, oh wise man of conspiracy theories.

I have been surprised at the acceptance of the phrase "deep state" (regardless of your opinion of the topic) because it simply sounds like a foreign phrase to the English-speaking ear.

In the US, and in English in general, the use of "State" to talk about government is largely confined to political scientists and the odd reader of Leviathan. In popular culture, terms like "bureaucrat" are more typical, oftne with "unelected" tacked on the front. And of course in the US and Australia, at least, "state" is generally used for major subnational government divisions ("state of Texas").

On the other hand, the popular use of "state" as an actor or participant in its own right comes from 19th century revolutionary theory, especially communism. So countries heavily influenced by those movements (russia and former Warsaw-pact bloc, China, even Turkey, et al) use this construct naturally.

So it's fascinating that this loan-word has become popular in English.

Separation of church and state? Charge of the state? State owned broadcaster? Maybe it's more common than you think.

The OP is right that in everyday talk state is not used in the general sense of "government"

My own tin foil hat theory is that "state" in that usage entered into common English use (in U.S.) because of foreign actors. Rush Limbaugh, et al. have been talking about "deep state" long before it entered common use around the 2020 election.

Deep state is the CIA and FBI Who have gone rogue because they no longer are at the purview of the president. They are unelected and they need to be dismantled before it’s too late. The Texas Rangers were a state form of the FBI and that power needs to go back to the state. There is no need for an FBI and the CIA causes way more problems than they solve around the world

The deep state refers to entities like the CIA whose job it is to gather blackmail on people (Epstein), Are not elected, and stay over between administrations thereby effectively being able to wield control through Coercion.

This is plain as day, given by the fact that The Kennedy documents are still classified, even though nobody is alive from that period. They are classified because they’re protecting an institution not because they’re protecting a person. To deny there is a deep state is to Deny reality of how humans operate

There's an old joke that when a new President is elected the Security Services take the new President into a room were there's a projector showing a film of the Kennedy assassination but from a different angle from the Zapruder film. At the end, the Security Services representative turns to the new President and asks "any questions?".

https://archive.is/mJsP2

IANAL (not a Lobbyist) to actually know...but the article sounds very depressingly credible.

"What they don’t say is that the definition of the deep state—an entrenched force that wields power regardless of the administration in the White House—now fits the business of lobbying better than it does the faceless bureaucracy."

The earliest notion of DeepState I know: US Gov's compulsion to snoop on the most possible people = US Gov's hydra of surveillance agencies/divisions + it's many partnerships with state & local govs to share data (mostly upward) and help the lesser govs build their own hydras.

This is was DeepState referred to, before DS got retooled into a conspiracy theory tag. Was DS ever a catchall for faceless bureaucracies?

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