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Comment by hn_throwaway_99 | Hacker News Reader

> For better or for worse the ship has definitely sailed on the laissez-faire "be home before sunset" parenting of past generations.

It's only "sailed" because (some) parents demand to know where their kid is at all times. While I think it's difficult for any individual parent to, say, forbid social media for too long lest they ostracize their kid, saying "I won't track my kids" is a choice any parent can make.

I just pity the kids of these helicopter parents. The youth mental health crisis is no accident.

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It's a choice a parent can make until someone calls the cops because your kid is unattended. I've had people give me you're an awful parent side eyes for not keeping my eyes on my kid 100% of the time in a fenced in park. Letting my kid walk to school like I did as a kid is just forever outside of my reach if I want to not have CPS called on me. At least if I geotag my kid with someone obvious people will be chill about her playing in front of the house.

I don’t understand why people would care about kids that are not obviously lost walking somewhere alone?

There's entire TV channels dedicated to indoctrinating their viewers into a continuous mood of fear and anxiety, probably because it's easier to advertise to people in a febrile state.

I don't either, but that won't stop them from calling the cops.

It seems like kids have to be at least teenagers these days for people to assume they're OK to be out by themselves, and even then, some people are apparently wary before the kids are old enough to drive.

The first recorded use of the word "busybody" was in 1526, per Merriam Webster. Some people just feel like it's their duty to tell the world how to be. I think it's just human nature.

Exactly,I feel that some parents will be judged by their peers if they are not keeping a short leash on their children.

And because people are encouraged to look at any sign of child neglect (for some reason), dirty clothes or bruise that could be acquired during play, could be easily misconstrued as child abuse.

I have been often judged harshly for not subscribing to parental paranoia and refusing to breach trust with constant surveillance. I stand by my choice: surveillance harms trust, children need space and safety is good enough. I'm way too old to be sensitive to the opinion of other parents !

It's interesting that some parents seem to be more worried about what their peers think about them, than about giving their child the opportunity to grow to be well-adjusted and independent.

Considering that some judgement could come it a form of community shunning or harassment, I would be worried in these case.

> It's a choice a parent can make until someone calls the cops because your kid is unattended.

Since an unattended kid doesn't automatically advertise "I'm being tracked so it's ok!", the cops will likely get called regardless.

If only all social problems could be solved so easily. Theft? It only happens because (some) people keep stealing. They should just stop.

In the absence of people just doing what I think is right instantly and without question, I pity the child whose parents solve this anxiety by trapping them in the house 16 hours a day.

I don’t understand your example. Theft is complicated to solve because the one stealing gets a benefit from doing it. To solve that you need to change the cost/benefit balance for everyone.

To solve the over anxious parent problem you just need to get up to two people to chill out. It provides an immediate benefit for them (they will be chill) while it also provides them a long term benefit (a well adjusted offspring).

What is the supposed paralel here? Or what should be my takeaway from your comparision be?

helicopter parents believe they are getting the benefit of keeping their child safe, and convincing them otherwise is extremely nontrivial. To solve the over anxious parent problem (societally) we have to convince all of them, not just one set.

Gambling, alcoholism, or hard drugs might be a more apt comparison. Quitting obviously reaps huge benefits short and long term and yet we as a society still have not solved these problems by saying "just don't actually".

Once we acknowledge that, it becomes obvious that finding ways to reduce harm is good.

This is a really naive take. I tried literally what you’re advocating. And what happened was some busybody lady in my neighborhood kept calling CPS when my daughter would walk to play at a friend’s houses down the block. When I was her age (6) I ranged an entire town on my bike. But this lady just kept calling on us. She’d bring my daughter home whenever she saw her out. It was infuriating. Once we got the Apple Watch the calls and helicopter stuff stopped. Also, the GPS tracking on the cellular Apple Watch isn’t even super accurate, but I can call her to let her know it’s time to come home.

The other kids seemed to have followed suit, their parents relented (mostly, the Muslim families on our block seem to keep a very tight leash on their kids) and run around the neighborhood freely. But before our kid started going out nobody was going out.

There must be something you can do about that lady other than sticking a watch on your child. Something about harassment surely.

If it weren’t her, it’d be another one. There are whole swaths of the populace convinced any child out alone is in mortal danger. They’ll post to the neighborhood Facebook group in panic if they see a child walking to the convenience store unattended.

The funny thing about this is that it's all about reinforcement and standing up for what you believe in. If more parents reported ridiculous busybodies like this woman for harassment, rather than caving in and changing their parenting style, then more potential busybodies would be on notice that their busybody behavior won't be tolerated by the community.

The problem is that the busybodies are usually well-meaning neighbors, trying to protect your kid from what they think is mortal danger. So throwing a fit about it is not a good look, if you care about getting along with your neighbors. The stakes are also very high: if someone gets mad enough, they might well report you to CPS, which is terrifying, especially when local laws in many places in fact allow CPS to decide that you were in fact neglectful. A more effective course of action is to work toward getting your state to pass laws protecting children’s independence.

Well, thank god I don’t live in the US. I can just send my kid to the convenience store and everyone will comment on how great it is they’re already able to do it by themselves, and how they’re helping out.

> There must be something you can do about that lady

No. Not a blessed thing. Most calls to CPS are anonymous and will never be investigated, no matter often or egregious.

My neighbor called CPS so often my kid would say "Oh. You again" when they showed up in school. I was designing a brochure for CPS agents to hang at the front door. It had all the schools and relatives with their contact info, along with a map to the fridge and bedrooms.

There is something fundamentally wrong with this. How do you end up feeling so insecure you feel the need to call every single time?

How did the Apple Watch keep the annoying lady away from your kid?

It’s a lot easier to get busybodies to leave you alone if you can call your mom on your watch. My kid also wanted to roam free at age 7, and he got the cops called on him. He’s in middle school now and still salty about it. If I could have gotten him a reasonably-priced phone in watch format, I’d have done it.

woah WTF, is this what it's like in the US???

Here in the UK we don't have Japan-level super-younglings walking to school on their own etc, but you certainly wouldn't get any bother walking around at age 6 unless you looked obviously lost.

Hearing your experience is just so mindwarpingly boggling it's unreal..

This is not the overall US. This is a particular type of middle class suburb that is full of busybodies and helicopter parents.

It's any population center, city and metro area. They all have police and there's no shortage of cops who believe John Walsh's false stranger-danger narratives.

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