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Comment by ThePowerOfFuet | Hacker News Reader

> Family of four, living in Oregon, non-smoking, our premium is ~$1k/month. Granted it’s a high deductible ($12k), but it protects us from the kind of catastrophic emergency that could wipe out our savings. We are fortunate to not have expensive, ongoing conditions.

Family of two, living in the EU, non-smoking, our premium is ~€0/month. Granted it's a €0 deductible, but it protects us from the kind of catastrophic emergency that could wipe out our savings.

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Are you unemployed? Otherwise, this is just not true. Assuming OP and his wife earn average incomes for academics in the US, they'd pay 2x ~920 USD per month in Germany, totaling 80% more than the premium and only 9% less than the worst case scenario of OP having to pay the full deductible.

Average salary for a full professor in the US is $129K, which would put it closer to $800.

That being said, the average professor salary in Germany is around 84,000 Euro, so it's closer to $560 a month.

You also ignore that after the high deductible is paid in the US you're still paying co-insurance and co-pays. (I love how US health insurers describe these as "your contribution" to your healthcare costs, as if you weren't already paying premiums and deductibles, but the magical insurance fairy is...).

Yeah but you need to put the 1k OP pays into the context of US salaries, not German salaries.

Worst case is significantly worse: deductible, out-of-pocket maximum, copay of X%, and potential for out of network costs.

But after taxes and lower salary, I bet you're more than $12k/yr behind an equivalent US employee's net earnings yes?

Yes 100%. You can make 50k as a developer in London or 250k in California.

Your premium is paid by your employer. Please revisit the statement when you are self-employed.

Also, turns out there is a deductible if you don't want to pay a fortune for self-insurance.

Well, at least there is in Germany. And the premium ends up being ~$1k/month.

US health insurance is crappy in many ways, but EU health insurance isn't a magic fairy unicorn either.

:). If only people in America understood how they are being scammed by the Health Insurance Mafia.

This is flat out not true. Your health insurance is paid by your employer, and it's not at all cheap. If you were self-employed, you would be paying for your own health insurance. This is de facto the same system as in the US, except it's a criminal offence not to purchase insurance.

In the next-door Czech Republic, it's even mandatory to buy health insurance if you're unemployed, unless you go and register with the 'Ministry of Labour' (which requires you to spend inordinate amounts of time jumping through insane bureaucratic hoops, and is ultimately time limited). Consider for a moment the effect of these laws on people with mental health issues, the homeless, and itinerant minorities like the Roma.

Had a tough year out on the streets, but now getting back up on your feet? Congratulations, here's your back-debt for the 'public' health insurance you failed to purchase, you criminal. Want to take a few months off between jobs? Gotta go down, in person, to your local health insurance office to purchase yourself some public health insurance. Want to start a new business, but haven't made a profit yet? No worries, here's your 'minimum rate' of mandatory health insurance - prepare to shell out several thousand euros a year and spend time every quarter filing paperwork with the government health insurance bureau.

There are excellent public health care systems out there (e.g. Australia, and probably the Nordic countries) but much of continental Europe has truly terrible ones. And that's before you even discuss the difficulty of securing a doctor, or the actual quality of medical care received.

Taxes you pay pay for this, or your employer pays it instead of paying you.

Now you can argue that health care costs less on a per basis, or even per productive taxpayer basis, but that's a different matter. Maybe the US could recreate your healthcare COST system, but it doesn't have to also take on your payment system (tax instead of direct)

Healthcare delivery in the US is — not good.

Absolutely, that's why you hear about rich Americans traveling internationally to have their medical procedures done.

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