Stellantis CEO confirms $25k Jeep EV | Hacker News Reader

Stellantis CEO confirms $25k Jeep EV

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36 pointsbelter86 comments

I'm interested, but only if its a good deal. Given all the back tracking by GM and Ford on EVs, I'd welcome the Chinese ones to come in and undercut them. Remember in 2008 when GM et all failed because all they wanted to make were SUVs and no one wanted them, even when they were a roll over hazard that was crushing people to death, and they nearly failed. Then the US Gov bailed them out and they had their shit together for a bit. Well, we are back in the SUV only era. If they don't want to produce the vehicles that we want, let someone else in who does. Then there will be competition and GM et all won't be able to be a one trick SUV pony. Auto makers DO NOT LEARN.

The market is pushing for all SUVs, more than 70% of new cars sold are SUVs or Trucks. The car companies don't decide to make all SUVs, the consumer decided they only wanted those vehicles and the car companies obliged.

That's because no one makes a sub $35k car anymore. They have pushed all options to luxury and are not meeting the demand of the market, so you buy what you can get.

A new Civic, Elantra, or Corolla all have MSRPs under $25k.

Not one of the cars you just listed are GM et al US makers. Sure, they might be made here, but not one of them is an "American" car.

Chevy Malibu -- starts at $25,100

https://www.chevrolet.com/cars/malibu

MSRPs aren't actually that low in practice

Seems like the Chevy Malibu is currently selling significantly under MSRP:

$20,915 -- https://www.jimmckaychevrolet.com/new-Fairfax-2024-Chevrolet...

$20,999 -- https://www.cooperautogroup.com/inventory/new-2024-chevrolet...

$20,665 -- https://www.earnhardtchevrolet.com/new-Chandler-2024-Chevrol...

$21,065 -- https://www.graffchevy.com/inventory/new-2024-chevrolet-mali...

$21,995 -- https://www.homewoodchevy.com/inventory/new-2024-chevrolet-m...

To indulge a tangent, which attribute would you say is determinative for an “American car”? Is it just where the corporation is registered? That’s probably international across the board, after all Jeeps are Chryslers are Fiats are Peugeots are all Stellantis and are headquartered in the Netherlands by way of France, Italy, and America. I suppose Ford still resembles its original American identity, even if they’d really like to build more cars in Mexico. General Motors is still mostly an American brand, but it also sold Hummer to a Chinese company, and has several platforms that are shared with European and Asian brands. If it’s simply where the board members hold meetings, then I’m not too keen on buying American for its own sake, but the broader point is, what the hell even is an American car anymore?

I would argue the location of its manufacture is probably the most significant factor, as it contributes the most towards what I think of people commonly think of as buying “American”—things like supporting the assembly line workers, and as much as possible keeping the economic activities surrounding its production domestic. To that end, my BMW 3-series was built in South Carolina, and would then rank as an American car. But that notion is pretty absurd to my sensibilities, so maybe it’s more of a cultural idea? So American cars could be made anywhere, as long as they’re huge, overpowered, and are a Ford F-150. By that logic, I’d call a Jeep Wrangler American, but probably not the Wagoneer (see: Range Rover), and certainly not the Compass (see: pre-Genesis Hyundai). This definition seems far too ambiguous and subjective.

Ultimately, I think globalization has effectively ended the whole idea of nationalistic car manufacturing. Like a lot of now-vestigial cultural institutions, the modern world economy has consumed these old modes of thought, and left them to be wielded as marketing by advertising agencies who eagerly leverage our nostalgia and cultural identities to craft the illusion that these brands still represent the American Way®.

If only I could find one on the local car lots that where under that price... Instead the local car dealers all have those cars tricked out, then it becomes a question, pay for that with all the bells and whistles (which I don't want) or buy the SUV that is the same price that they do have on the lot?

This is patently false.

Well, when you haven't updated your sedan in 6 years but still charge the same price as when it first released, it's easy to claim "lack of customer demand".

Look around you when driving. If you're in a small car like me, vw golf, you realize how out of place you are. Every vehicle behind me feels like they have their high beams on because their car is so much higher off the ground.

I love the efficiency of my small car, but the lack of safety to those outside of the vehicle is a huge concern. One can buy a 2ton vehicle off the lot today that can do 0-60 in 3.0, the hummer ev. I really don't feel safe in a small car anymore.

I'm not the only one who thinks this. It's a race to get bigger and beefier cars . Unless we put in regulations, it's only going to get worse. No wonder pedestrian deaths have risen.

Nit: the hummer EV is 4.5 tons. The average SUV only has 2 tons of mass.

This ignores the effects of marketing through advertising, product placement and taping into stuff like masculinity and toxic individualism.

It's more profitable to sell us larger/bigger/scarier cars in the vehicle size/weight arms race.

I dislike overweight behemoths as much as any cyclist of pedestrian would, but neither masculinity or individualism have much to do with it. Arguably cycling is more individualistic than driving an automobile. As for masculinity, if you were saying that about muscle cars, yeah, ok; maybe -afterall men get accused of buying those to compensate for lost masculinity. But anyway women like SUVs as much as men (women buy more SUVs, men buy more light trucks). No surprise they’re called hausfrauenpanzer.

Let's say collectivism is the opposite of individualism, so if I was to take a collectivist mindset about my car choice something I might consider would be making sure I can see the other people in my community well while driving (because cars are dangerous) and I don't want to hurt someone. I'd argue that the opposite of that choice would be to buy a larger vehicle which makes me more safe at the expense of other people, by making them harder to see and hurting people more because of vehicle mass.

As for masculinity, anyone regardless of their gender can do stereotypically masculine or feminine things. For example men who do drag are generally dressing in a more classical feminine style. In the barbie movie, when the Kens took over they were pictured with a big hummer EV, not any of the other smaller cars we saw in the movie.

Macho is driving 120+ in 1000 or 1200cc Honda, BMW or Ducati, or other times a driving a cambered small car down the road at high speed as well. Or it could be going down the middle of O'Shaughnessy on a skateboard.

Fem is getting behind a 5000lb SUV. So it's no surprise women and families choose SUVs.

Individualism could be getting up early to bike all the way to Mt Tam, or getting up early to catch the surf. Collectivism might be taking the family out to a BBQ at the park, or going to the supermarket and doing the grocery shopping for the fam.

There's pretty significant tax exemptions on SUVs [1] - so a big part of that "consumer choice guiding the market" is actually "the government's choice guiding the consumer's choice, guiding the market".

Given the size of automotive lobbying in the USA, you could reasonably extend that to "the automotive lobby groups guiding the government's choice, guiding the consumer's choice, guiding the market".

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/07/trucks-ou...

Yes. The taxes on these vehicles need to be raised considerably to discourage people.

Nanny state nonsense and government overreach. If you want to drive a Smart car no one is stopping you. Others make can their own appropriate choices.

Freedom doesn’t include the freedom to expose others to excessive risk. No way I’m driving a smart car in a herd of F150s

These cars cause way more damage to road, cars, infrastructure and people.

And they are twice as likely to kill someone in a serious crash.

You don't think that should be discouraged.

EVs cause way more wear and tear damage to the roads due to their weight.

Compared to what? A Honda Civic or a Ford F-150?

Tesla Model S and Model X each weigh more than most Ford F-150 configurations, the largest V8 models excepted, but not by much.

I'd prefer to see people facing significant criminal charges because they hit and killed someone with their car. Pretty sure we don't need to bother with harsher taxes considering we already have these laws on the books. Something like "negligent manslaughter" or whatever.

Anecdotally, it has to do with people feeling safer around the super-sized trucks in an SUV than they do a sedan.

If only we knew why consumer demand changed to gravitate toward SUVs...

Not going to happen. We'll tariff the shit out of the Chinese before we let them take our cars.

China > Mexico, some assembly required > NAFTA

My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the tariffs are based on the source location of the battery components. Assembly doesn't matter unless you start mining lithium in NAFTA? That's why it's gonna hit some ebikes and the like.

USMCA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Mexico%E...

...which is a real shame because they are building useful EVs that are safe enough for Western markets at compelling prices. Having access to these could attract a lot of price-sensitive buyers and make a significant dent in US automotive emissions.

We don't care that the Chinese are dominating other manufacturing (i.e., consumer goods); why do we suddenly care because it's automobiles?*

*Yes, I'm aware of the legacy power of auto worker unions and American Pride.

"American Pride." lol, the US Gov killed that a long time ago

> I'd welcome the Chinese ones to come in and undercut them

Actually I'd rather the Chinese not saturate the market with their underpriced garbage and destroy what little manufacturing jobs the US has left, just so you can own an AliExpress EV.

Have you experienced a $25k Chinese EV yet?

Reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwkanuoalns

> GM et all failed because all they wanted to make were SUVs and no one wanted them, even when they were a roll over hazard that was crushing people to death, and they nearly failed

Except everyone does want them, and even bigger trucks. They dominate sales.

In the late 2000s, when gas was $6+/gallon nationwide, SUV sales tanked. Automobile factories were furiously retooling to build small cars again. GM and Chrysler lost their shirts. (Ford made it out bruised but not broken.)

Then when gas became cheap again in the 2010s, SUVs became popular again, and everyone retooled again to build them.

It's clearly targeted at the Indian market. Stellantis EVs like the e-C3 are fairly competitive in India [0], and India is crazy about SUVs and Jeeps (eg. Toyota Fortuner and the Mahindra Thar and Scorpio).

Most likely it's an attempt by Stellantis to compete with Mahindra's upcoming Thar EV [1], the same way Toyota, Suzuki, and Maruti Suzuki all use the same EV platform globally to compete with Hyundai and Honda EVs in India.

[0] - https://www.citroen.in/new-ec3

[1] - https://www.mahindraelectricautomobile.com/

The shoebox (affectionate) 2024 Fiat 500e is $33k. How is a Jeep EV going to be $25k?

I'm assuming EV doesnt stand for what we think it stands for. When I think Jeep i think....Extremely Volatile? Explodes Violently? Evidently Vexatious?

My guess is that they mean “$25k including potential federal and state rebates” which actually means 33k for the base model that will have a 6 month order lag time.

It’ll be for a base model that they don’t actually sell at dealerships at all. The ones rolling onto lots will still be $50k+

Genuinely: why does anyone believe almost anything these guys say? They’re not going to be honest - it’s their fiduciary responsibility to be dishonest.

It could be a 25K Jeep, but requires 1k/month of maintenance that must be performed at a dealership.

Because that car is a highly stylish car aimed at upper middle class people, and has the styling, pricing, and marketing to match.

The Jeep is going to be midmarket with probably a lot of cost-cutting features. Probably not as nice fit and finish and such and will probably hit the $25k price point, after the $7500 subsidy.

If I had to guess it might be an electric version of the ICE Jeep Compass which starts at $25k. EV motors and batteries are reaching an economic point where they are becoming practically drop-in replacements for ICE drivetrains. The engine, drivetrain, emissions, etc stuff is also expensive. Assembly I imagine is cheaper too because electric cars are simpler machines.

The ICE Fiat 500 is a cheap car in Europe. Is it different in the USA?

Stateside a decade ago the Fiat 500 was a cheap garbage tier vehicle. Nowadays, they make an expensive car, that is likely still garbage tier.

They're expensive if you're buying them new. But they quickly depreciated in value and back when they still sold their ICE models here it was easy to buy a 2-3yo one for around $12k.

I don't know how much of a battery's cost is yet to be reduced by scale and process improvements, but it isn't $0. Maybe?

While it is of course most improper on this website to read the article:

> Tavares disclosed few details about the upcoming vehicle, saying it will be priced around $25,000 in the U.S. to emulate Stellantis’ pricing of the Citroen e-C3 SUV, a low-cost model starting at 23,300 euros, or about $25,200, in Europe.

I mean, reading between the lines, they all but say that it's going to be same platform as the e-C3; Citroen and Jeep are both members of the big happy family of car brands everyone had forgotten existed that is Stellantis. (Stellantis does seem to be slightly getting its act together now, but for quite a while it really was just a bunch of "wait, they still make those?" brands).

That said there's actually a 25k EUR version of the e500 available here; possibly the US only gets the higher trim levels or something?

Perhaps this is what they're going to build at Belvidere.

https://www.wifr.com/2023/11/03/stellantis-commits-nearly-5b...

https://www.wifr.com/2024/05/07/stellantis-reassures-belvide...

Probably something like the Mazda MX 30 which can be had like new for ~20k cuz no one wants a 100 mile range

However I am really looking forward to the MX-30 R-EV plug-in hybrid variant that is meant to come stateside this year, 50 mile EV range + a tiny rotary engine as a range extender to keep going after that.

If our family ever needed a second car, about 70 miles of real-world range would be more than plenty. We already have a long range EV for road trips.

fair enough, makes sense for a multi-car household. in my town plenty of people get around in electric golf cars if they don't have to get on a highway

The Citroen e-C3 from the same manufacturer costs <25k eur and has a range of 300km or so.

Huh, so that's who owns Jeep. They also own Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat and some fancy brands like Maserati https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellantis#Brands

Its a shell of what it once was

Chrysler -> Fiat -> Stellantis

Dodge Trucks used to be the aspiration - now they are the bottom of the heap (but still better than a cybertruck)

Also confused. Thought it was that Rivian truck maker for a moment with the EV bent.

Turns out, apparently its actually Chrysler Group and Fiat S.p.A., who turned into Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. (FCA) in 2014, who then merged with Peugeot Société Anonyme (PSA Group) in 2021, and then did a name change to Stellanis.

I would love a cheap electric Jeep. Can they actually produce a significant number of them? and turn a profit?

The company that built the K-car is now going to sell a 25K jeep? Oh dear.

Cool, but we want hybrids.

that’s 2022 thinking

Not me. To me hybrids are the worst of both worlds when it comes to maintenance.

I bought my EV to get rid of oil changes, transmission fluid flushes, alternator issues, spark plugs, oil filters, break pad/rotor changes, and most importantly, trips to gas stations.

The only reason I need to get it serviced is for tire rotations and recalls.

That’s it.

So you're also skipping important safety inspections that normally happen at oil change intervals?

I don’t consider inspections maintenance. I’m mostly referring to the vehicle needing recurring things done to it.

Safety inspections are simply making sure things are functioning as expected. Ideally, no additional maintenance is needed.

If I get an oil change on an ICE car, and not at a $20 drive thru type place, they are at minimum pulling the tires off and doing an underbody inspection.

I think we’re in agreement.

I have my tires rotated and they check critical systems.

My point is that owning an EV has eliminated costly maintenance — and often repairs — associated with an internal combustion system and drive train.

Not only are these repairs costly, it’s annoying having to deal with shops trying to get you to fix things that aren’t even needed, or paying more than you really need to.

EVs have eliminated a lot of these costs, and shops have fewer repairs they can push on you.

I call bullshit. Maybe China has the ability to sell an off-road EV for only $25k, but not Stellantis.

They make plenty of EVs at that pricepoint in Europe (especially France and Romania edit: confused Renault Dacia in Romania and Citroen in Slovakia) and India like the Citroen e-C3 for $13k in India [0].

China isn't the only low cost BEV market. German automakers went to China, American automakers to Mexico, and French+Italian (Stellantis and Renault) automakers to India+Brazil+Romania.

Most likely it's an attempted partnership by Stellantis to work with Mahindra on their Thar EV [1], the same way Toyota, Suzuki, and Maruti Suzuki all use the same EV platform globally.

[0] - https://www.citroen.in/new-ec3

[1] - https://www.mahindraelectricautomobile.com/

>They make plenty of EVs at that pricepoint in Europe (especially France and Romania)

The Dacia EV is made in China, not Romania.

Dacia is Renault. Not Citroen.

And Citroen has no plants in Romania.

Yep! Edited! I confused Citroen and Renault. But the Renault EVs in India are all made in India.

Manufacture. Not sell. Have you seen most of their dealerships? They couldn't sell a car if it was free.

(Oh yes, I'm still salty from that process. Car dealership are all abominations, but Jeep ones hold a special place in that pantheon)

We need to get rid of dealerships ASAP. They provide no value while adding extra costs on now super expensive vehicles all Americans are forced to buy to live normal lives

American here without a super expensive vehicle, but still a pretty normal life.

There are plenty of adequate cars for $5-10k, even with the current used car price insanity.

I agree that dealerships are parasites, but so far it seems like it's pretty easy to avoid dealing with them.

Also an American and the same story. I have owned six "modern" (post 2000) vehicles and none cost more than $5000 and all have had very long and problem free lives with me. The only two vehicles I don't still own is a Dodge van that had an engine issue (owner fault) and a Mitsubishi that my wife's friend wrapped around a pole.

Oh, totally. I've bought all my past cars used, and it was a perfectly servicable experience.

But if you want a new car (first time I ever did that, long story), good god, dealerships are a pox on all our houses. And unless people buy new cars from time to time, you'll run out of used ones at some point ;)

It's honestly easier to buy a car private-sale than through a dealership. I did it last year and it was the least painful process I've ever seen. The seller and I went to my credit union, we both signed paperwork that gave the loan officer the legal right to execute the sale on our behalf, she conducted the sale all herself including the title transfer, I got a car, the seller got a check. Neither of us had anything to do after walking out the door.

I legit don't think I'm ever going through a dealership ever again.

Warranty service?

no chance these incumbent dealers have their fingers deep in politics.

in Seattle companies like Rivian cannot even tell you the price in the retail store due to laws that incumbent dealers pushed through making it illegal know full well that a lack of price will prevent sales.

Tesla is the one exception who was grandfathered in before the law was changed.

Jeep is a brand. Article says nothing about off road capabilities.

That would be an extreme departure from their current lineup:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jeep_vehicles#Current_...

An F1 car is only marginally less off-road capable than Jeep's compact crossovers, "Trail Rated" badge be damned.

Sure, but they're owned by Stellantis, so they can just stick the Jeep badge on an Alfa, for instance.

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