Volkswagen Group brings electric car for EUR 20k | Hacker News Reader

Volkswagen Group brings electric car for EUR 20k

volkswagen-group.com

29 pointsbelter42 comments

I hate the tittle "brings". They aint bringing nothing but words. "says will bring" would be correct.

Anyways, the price alone isnt an issue, you can make car for less. The issue comes when you want to make a car people want to buy for this much.

Planned for 2027. When it ships for that price I’ll believe it.

The main underdelivery of EV’s is total cost of ownership which is a shit show of complexity under a layer of marketing.

(Note: former EV owner. I don’t own a car now)

car ownership in general is like that now. though evs are still working out their whole supply and support chain so that's an additional layer of mess.

What makes total cost of ownership complex? It seems like modern EVs require little maintenance and are really reliable, even the brakes last almost forever. I leased a new VW E-golf for a while- with incentives it was some crazy cheap amount, I think it was like $29/month to lease a brand new car because VW had to sell a quota of them and wasn't meeting it and this one was almost 2 years old and still new/unsold because it couldn't fast charge. That was really all it cost besides insurance- my work had free charging, and it needed zero maintenance. Great car, I regret not buying out the lease.

Charging. The network of chargers and the billing is a shit show. Also service which is somewhat variable.

If I fast charge anywhere reliable here (instavolt) in the UK I’m better off driving a petrol car. Helm a coal powered one is probably cheaper. So that limits me to home charging which I can’t do any more because I live in an apartment block.

Owned a model S and have rented a Polestar numerous times.

Yeah, charging when 'out and about' in new places is a total shit show. It worked for me economically because I had free charging at work, and could also charge cheaply at home.

There were some stressful events when I went to like 3 public chargers in a row that were broken or missing, and almost ran out of range before finding one.

Ooh yeah fuck that last one. Especially when you have 2h to return a hire one. Urgh.

I find my EV eats tires much faster than my Honda/toyotas used to. I think it’s a mixture of the additional torque and weight.

The extra weight is a huuuuge factor.

Electrified trucks and freight will likely never be much cost effective given how tires will be constantly worn out.

I strongly doubt that, tire compound and design plays a huge roll, as well as the driver.

I reckon that simply changing the throttle ramp would have a good effect on tire wear

(I daily drive an ev conversion and have seen this first hand)

No "good driving" beats the laws of physics, the extra weight the batteries have will make that happen faster than an ICE.

Of course, battery tech can improve by becoming lighter, more efficient etc, then my argument would change, but without those improvements, I don't believe in it.

Fast acceleration from instantaneous torque delivery is going to increase the chance of breaking the friction barrier between the ground and the wheels. changing that torque delivery curve is going to have a huge effect on maintaining grip. driving habits absolutely have an effect on tire wear.

The Citroen Ami is available today for $11,000. Although it's not really a car by most people's expectations.

It isn't at all as it's classed as a moped or micro vehicle in most countries in the EU (max 45km/h, no access to 80kph+ roads.) edit: category AM for drivers license rules.

It’s not really a car by law. At least in the uk it’s classed as a quadricycle.

The Dacia Spring is the cheapest “real car” in Europe. But of course it’s made in china

Sure, but when you don't want it in bright orange and with Ac it's like 35k€

Sounds like a VW, the whole VAG consortium is like that. "Here is a cheap car", oh you want it useful: "Here is an expensive car".

Cheap Chinese cars are placing a lot of pressure in western markets with very competitive prices, so we may see this trend across other brands. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-03-18/cheap-...).

They have yet to actually enter the western market at all. There is no market competition happening that would explain why automakers feel the need to pre-emptively reduce prices for this hypothetical competition. Every article headlines with "BYD plans to... or "BYD targets to overtake Tesla by 20xx...", Let alone in the US, where you can't even hope to buy one given the tariffs.

Wait until their Mexican factories spin up! We'll finally get our cheap Chinese cars, via Mexico.

Viva Mexico!

Plenty of new Chinese EVs driving around here in the UK.

Not only are they already the entry level of the market in Australia, but they are quickly dominating it. 5 years ago, you'd only see (a handful of) Tesla's, but they're quickly becoming outnumbered by BYD and friends.

The reason for why these are so cheap in China is cutthroat competition that sees manufacturers selling their cars at a loss. Chinese manufacturers are basically cleaning the slate in the domestic EV market.

I keep hearing that western EV manufacturers (aside from Tesla) are also selling their cars at a loss, in addition to many governments having rebate incentives. How does that differ to China?

There was a ~€20k electric car from the VW group. It was called Skoda Citigo iV but they axed it. Seems like they are walking in circles.

They canned the UP! - there was not enough money to make for them in that market.

I currently have a 2017 Polo and there is nothing below in their model lineup and when I look at the replacement Polo it is bigger and more expensive and now the size of a Golf.

Either people are getting bigger, or the concept of an entry level affordable car escapes car manufacturers.

It is as you wrote: there's very little profit in small city cars. They (and others) decided to not service that market anymore and focus on segments that have higher profit margins.

Electrification compounds this issue: customers want range which means kilo's of battery which further impacts the profit on those small models.

The Skoda is just a version of the VW e-up!.

I also think that for 20k the up! just wasn't a good car. Which probably was one of the reasons it didn't get a new model.

>Seems like they are walking in circles.

Why? They are gradually releasing EVs for different segments of the market. The e-up! and e-Golf were very clearly meant to test designing developing and building EVs.

> people associate the strong brands of the Volkswagen Group with their first car – and with affordable mobility

Living in France I do associate VW (and especially the Golf) with reckless idiots who drive way too fast and tailgate cars all the time. I don’t know if it’s a local phenomenon but I never thought of that brand as cheap or anything like that.

It’s the only brand that gives me a Pavlovian response of fearing for my life when I see one in my mirror.

Having seen traffic in Paris I associate all French with reckless drivers :')

I know, not all of France is Paris but still...

TBH he started with the generalizations :)

this article is such none news, in 3 years they will plan to introduce a car they should have introduced 4 years ago. Bravo.

they build factories and production lines to churn out Audi EV which cost 100-150k , and are wondering why they aren't selling...

Paris is pretty peaceful. If you go to Brittany or the extreme south of France, you can enjoy some GTA action every day around you.

This comes after they announced negotiations with Renault fell through. Both company were in talks about a joint product, but couldn't agree. The announcement here isn't that VW is building a new car, it is that they will build a new car alone.

“Planned for 2027” does not sound like they’ve brought anything? Why are we posting pure marketing fluff to HN?

Seeing is believing, probably gonna const 35k anyways when it eventually comes to market.

In reality it will just be a petrol car but they'll cheat on the emissions test.

That makes literally no sense. VW never cheated on Petrol cars.

No mention of US in this.

This is obviously meant for shareholders, not customers. Either way it's just pathetic.

Bye Tesla

Check reliability of current VW models before purchasing.

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