New BYD Hybrid Can Drive Non-Stop for More Than 2k Kilometers
bloomberg.com
bloomberg.com
It's flipping the hybrid script: instead of using electric for low demand and gas for more juice, it's electric for the main power and gas just for the battery.
This puts the heavy lifting on the 90% efficient powertrain and eases up on the super inefficient 25% one.
Toyota should've been all over this back in 2015.
METI (the Japanese Ministry that develops Japan's R&D strategy) is hesitant about using lithium ion battery technology due to lithium dependency issues and memories about the impact the 1970s oil shock had on Japan [0][1], along with IP issues.
This is why Japan has been pushing it's domestic champions to research Hydrogen Fuel Cells [2] and solid state batteries [3]
This is also the strategy that Toyota adopted [4][5].
[0] - https://www.sojitz.com/history/en/era/05/
[1] - https://www.ide.go.jp/library/English/Publish/Periodicals/De...
[2] - https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/enecho/shoene_shinene/suiso...
[3] - https://www.meti.go.jp/english/report/pdf/0520_001a.pdf
[4] - https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39330548.html
[5] - https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39330500.html
This means the only options long term are Hydrogen and Sodium Solid State.
I'd recommend reading the Japanese government docs and presentations I linked above as they explain why Japan and it's companies are doing what they are doing.
https://cen.acs.org/materials/inorganic-chemistry/Can-seawat...
And natural gas; it's clear from https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/enecho/shoene_shinene/suiso... that the plan is to get hydrogen from natural gas, with electrolysis as a thin renewable figleaf over the issue of CO2 emissions.
(don't trust any source that describes hydrogen as an "energy source". There is no naturally occurring hydrogen reserve. It is not a source.)
They might be in a better place if TEPCO hadn't messed up their nuclear plant designs in a tsunami zone.
Did you take into consideration optimal load efficiencies? What about the total cost of ownership for the energy conversion from ICE?
In 2015, hybrids were already well optimised for the current technology limitations.
Lohner–Porsche is a term encompassing several electric vehicles designed by Ferdinand Porsche and manufactured at Lohner-Werke in the early 1900s. They include the first hybrid electric vehicle and the first commercial hub motor car. The hybrid "Mixed" or "Mixte" racecars are powered by a gasoline engine which drives four electric motors, one in each wheel hub. The battery-powered "Touring" or "Chaise" commercial cars utilize only two front-wheel hub motors.
2.9 l/100 km is pretty good though.
A quick online search has the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid as the highest range hybrid at 670 miles (1000km so half BYD’s figure), with a 50L tank that would put at a 5l/100k.
So it has double the range AND double the efficiency of the current highest range, costing half the price… seems like a very big deal
But doubling the range is not that interesting to me, they could make the tank 4 times bigger and that would be useless for most purposes, and that was just my point. The price seems interesting indeed, but that is the price in China, which would be very different elsewhere I guess.
I’m conflicted about these tariffs since on one hand I understand the security threats and I’d like the rest of the world to catch up so it’s not just China dominating the market, but on the other it seems sad that affordable and effective EVs are here and probably can make a significant dent in emissions but the politics keep them from being utilized.
Where in Europe are you?
The EU is looking at enforcing a 50% tariff on Chinese EVs in the coming months [0][1]. A trade war has already unofficially started between China and the EU [2].
[0] - https://www.politico.eu/article/probe-into-chinese-subsidies...
[1] - https://www.ft.com/content/31575d29-1945-4a90-8640-04967e1d1...
[2] - https://www.politico.eu/article/china-beijing-market-eu-trad...
The other large markets like the EU and India are also looking at tariffs for EVs exported directly from China and are pushing for Chinese companies to create domestic JVs in both countries (eg. BYD in Hungary, MG in India).
[0] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/269872/largest-automobil...
That makes energy super cheap. But is is an external cost, people are paying with their health.
Europe and USA went to similar periods in the past. Now China is regulating more and more because pollution is a huge problem there.
Then you have salaries, that used to be cheap, now not so much.
Also a very important thing is that in China capital is not free, it is a communist system and your savings account are used to subsidise what the Government wants. EV, solar, electronic chips and batteries are a priority so they receive infinite amounts of money from Government.
Finally you have scale. China usually have enormous markets because it has so much people, although that applies to cheap things, for cars they don't have enough buyers inside so they want to sell in Africa and India and the West.
Lots countries have had subsidies and incentives for electric cars; however China's policies seems to have been uniquely succesful - exactly why is not obvious.
Some point to the "mayor economy" where cities compete in being attractive for companies to setup business. For example see the story of Tesla's Shanghai plant.
- vastly easier land use situation, and impossibility of local protest
- the big one: synergy. Making batteries and electronics and steel parts all comparatively close to each other inside the same customs zone.
- less regulatory capture (they actually have to compete!)
https://dialogue.earth/en/business/life-after-subsidies-for-...
Doing business in China is indeed very hard, but Tesla is still selling quite well there, despite absolutely furious competition.
Extension of the preferential tax policy for car purchases The total reduction and exemption is expected to reach 520 billion yuan —— Precision to provide assistance to the expansion of new energy vehicles 2023-06-21
The Ministry of Finance, the General Administration of Taxation, and the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology recently issued a joint announcement to clearly continue and optimize the tax reduction and exemption policy for the purchase of new energy vehicles to support the development of the new energy automobile industry and promote automobile consumption. According to preliminary estimates, through the implementation of the extension policy, the total scale of vehicle purchase tax relief from 2024 to 2027 will reach 520 billion yuan.
This is not necessarily a problem if we can all peacefully coexist. China has a history of weaponizing their dominant market position to settle geopolitical/market disputes -- eg, rare earth metal ban against Japan in 2010; China's recent graphite "export control" to protect Chinese EV companies' business in markets abroad.
The fact that China practically banned all foreign EV battery makers from local EV market and forced EV OEMs to use locally made batteries by local battery makers to dominate the global battery market since 2016 under Xi's Make-In-China 2025 adds to the view that this isn't purely about saving the planet or making affordable EVs for the rest of us.
The US already has been countering China's every anticompetitive, discriminatory policy measure by more or less equal response: for instance, eliminating all subsidies on EVs with critical minerals sourced from non-free trading nations and banning Chinese EV/battery companies, and so on -- or otherwise known as Biden's IRA (vs Xi's Made-In-China 2025).
I'm not necessarily taking sides, but if you feel that the US's policy is bad, that's probably because China's original policy was also bad. If you were ok with China's exclusionary EV policy since 2016, you probably shouldn't be crying about the US's policy today since it's designed to mirror China's.
Do note however that, in March, China did file a WTO complaint accusing the US (IRA) of doing what China has been doing past decade under MIC 2025 -- misusing subsidies to force local content, local production (aka, in international trade lingo, it's called "local/domestic content requirement"). So I'm a bit troubled by China's double-standard.
Do some research before spewing this kind of nonsense.
Considering China, South Korea, and Japan just finished up a meeting which included moving forward with talks on a Free Trade Agreement in the face of American-led sanctions and tariffs...
It's going to be fun seeing just how effective American diplomacy and economic violence actually is nowadays.
South Korea has in particular suffered a great deal undr China's economic coercion since THAAD in 2017 -- their global giants like Samsung, Hyundai lost over 90% of their sales in China and they have likewise removed much of their manufacturing footprint in China. Not all too sure they want to jeopadize otherwise collaborative relationship with friendly ally, the US, for a hostile trading bully next door, China.
If that FTA does become a thing, the US will have lost before any hot war even began. May we live in fun times.
In Mexico they assemble cars from Chinese parts and ship duty free to the US and Candada.
Or build more factories in the US. Geely owns Volvo and they're building in the US. All the EU makers, the Korean and Japanese makers too have factories in the US.
Tariffs are on real imports, not on US or USMCA made products.
If you were looking for your first EV, you wouldn't be looking at this car because it is not an EV.
Most PHEVs are Hybrid ICE first and battery second. BYD's is the other way around because Japanese companies didn't ToT Hybrid engine technology in the 2000s unlike battery tech (BYD's was initially a ToT JV by Panasonic EDIT: NTT, Sony, and Sanyo. CATL was TDK and Panasonic).
Essentially, it's an EV that has a Hybrid ICE option instead of the other way around.
Anyway.
I imagine that under the right test conditions, if you were using a plug-in hybrid design and have a fairly substantial battery pack, then it would be different - because then you're just using EV mode for part of the range, and the gas for the rest of it (and choose your speed for optimal ICE performance vs. drag losses).
(In the i3 the range booster was an optional extra.)
Does that unicorn still even exist or do I have to wait for UE to do something about it?
And it is unrelated to all the data the manufacturers collect.
Cars will monitor driver attention, reckless driving, speeding and tattle to the manufacturer and insurance company. I expect these changes to be gradual and people will grouch about it before ultimately relenting.
I wonder if part of the reason that there's such a resistance to chinese cars is because they wouldn't give free tracking data to the US government.
Looks like incredible value and fuel efficiency at the price point.
In any event, the EU will impose 30%-100% import tariffs to protect their inferior car industry. This will hurt the European consumer and will hurt European competitiveness in the long term, but car companies are important to Germany and France so import taxes are a forgone conclusion.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/30/chinese-ev-imports-europe-mi...
- "But think of the pain that would inflict on 'our' auto industry!", they would say.
...but the EU has no second thoughts on inflicting pain on its citizens. (austerity, inflation/interest rates, etc.)
The imported cars fulfill the TÜV and cost less if they are even available here.
1. https://www.carscoops.com/2024/02/vw-wants-german-dealer-to-...
Large business interests always come first: automotive, pharma, banks/finance, etc.