Comment by Barrin92 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Barrin92 | Hacker News Reader

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> but a fairy-tale that sounds nice and we wish were true (this is true of most zen stuff). Basically they are fantasies that reality is less unfair/arbitrary

(zen) buddhism is a lot of things but certainly not a fairy tale. The basic assumption is that suffering is the basic state of life, that life is very unfair and arbitrary and that what you're going for is not even happiness but elimination of desire and ultimately the self. Very non happy go lucky as far as philosophical systems go. The article really has a very botched definition of happiness going on which it defines right in the beginning:

>For us, happiness is the target state that we want to achieve, at which we would be in our ideal condition

Happiness isn't a target state or object to be grasped, which is very trivial to show. Just imagine you get everything on this shopping list of happiness. Now you wake up the next day, what do you do? Life is always in some state of non-equilibrium and in particular if you do, as the article suggests, define happiness as a sort of string that pulls you along.

Ive long held that buddhism and related philosophies are a total cop-out. Instead of dealing realistically with the realities of desire and personhood it seeks a way out. Instead of coming to an understanding that happiness is a state to be pursued it builds this fantasy ideal of "zen".

Happiness is something we should work towards constantly. It makes me happy to go on hikes and see beautiful places it makes me happy to eat good food it makes me happy to spend time with loved ones and it makes me happy to build cool things. I pursue all these things happily, to achieve the state of happiness that they provide for me. You ask what happens if I achieve all these things? Well so far this week ive achieved 3 of 4 of the examples above and I am still happily pursuing doing them again.

"Zen" just means meditation, derived from Chan in Chinese Buddhism, which is derived from Jhana in Pali. It's not a fantasy ideal, but something you do.

Buddhist practice, in general, isn't interested in creating fantasy ideals, and it also isn't really a mere philosophy - it's a practical method with some ethical and social teachings. That method is designed to bring you into intimate contact with the "realities of desire and personhood", which most of us are almost entirely ignorant of, and avoid confronting through the pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of pain.

Actually, happiness is the ultimate goal of Buddhist practice - happiness free from conditions. If you had an accident during a hike and couldn't hike any more, you developed issues digesting certain foods such that you couldn't eat what you consider good food any more, your loved ones passed away or left, presumably your happiness would also take a hit with those things, the things you depend on for happiness. Buddhist practice doesn't preclude doing any of those things, it just trains the mind not to rely on them for wellbeing, and to find a deeper source of wellbeing that can always be contacted regardless of current circumstance.

"pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of pain" is the natural state of living things. It is an invaluable drive that has brought about the vast wealth of this society we live in. It has driven people to explore the secrets of the universe and to build amazing things. This drive has been unceasingly pushing us toward a world with less pain and unfairness, with more equity and kindness since the dawn of humanity. That is an admirable quality in my eyes.

Sadness and suffering too, are a natural part of being alive and isnt something we should avoid. If I lost the ability to hike I would be sad. Because thats the appropriate and healthy reaction to losing something you care about. This sadness and suffering is part of the natural process of grief. When I have lost loved ones I have deeply grieved them with my entire being. I have mourned with every ounce of my self and eventually come through the other side able to move on. I would have it no other way. This process does not preclude finding other sources of happiness later but it is important to go through.

That "deeper source of wellbeing" you talk about is the fantasy part. Can you touch it? can you tell it you love it? Can you share it around a table with people you care about?

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