She Was 29. And Doctors Helped Her Die
thefp.com
thefp.com
https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/16/dutc...
And had a persistent wish to die. Even wore a DNR tag around her neck.
She waited three years to finally get through all the requirements and be granted the assisted suicide.
This person made a personal choice and fortunately lived in an area where that choice is respected and neither she, nor her family were at risk of criminalization for her decision.
> “In the three and a half years this has taken, I’ve never hesitated about my decision. "
Dying on your couch, through lethal injection, at the age of 29, in a perfectly healthy physical body, while your loved ones look on, is in my mind the sign of a weak and forgettable person. Live meekly, I guess.
I think, had I heard it from the right voice at the right time, being told that killing myself made me weak and forgettable could've pushed me out of that half-a-decade-long rut sooner.
1. You are free to do with your body what you wish as long as you are not harming anyone else. You should not be compelled to do things with your body that you do not wish to do. Dieing in this controlled manner is not harming anyone else. It seems like a very personal choice.
2. Mental pain can be as great if not greater than physical pain. If we would accept the possibility of physician assisted suicide for incurable, severe physical pain, why would we not accept it for incurable, severe mental pain?
I think the objections to this would mostly be of a religious nature, appealing to a higher purpose for your life, etc
There's an inherent moral conflict in this process.
For me, it hits a lot of cognitive dissonance. I respect others' rights to do what they want with their bodies and lives, but this is something that is hard to empathize with because I haven't experienced the kinds of feelings that Zoraya had.
I don't find it such an extraordinary claim, but if you do, perhaps you can consider the rather extraordinary evidence that this woman chose to die to escape her pain as proof that it may be possible.
That said, as someone who suffers from chronic pain due to orthopedic issues, I do take some comfort in that my problem is very clear on a simple x-ray and can perhaps be alleviated with a surgery (that I am so far unwilling to face).
Would you be more distressed having your leg broken, or your child's leg broken?
Would you rather have severe back pain, or live with yourself if you accidentally left your kid in a hot car who then died?
These are at least some scenarios where for a lot of people the mental anguish would be greater than physical pain.
People say they do but it's like Free Speech. If they have no issue with what people or saying they invoke autonomy or Free Speech. If they don't like what the person is doing or saying suddenly they have a reason ( or would it be rationalization?) for why that speech or that action actually on closer examination really does hurt other people.
I mean, I like the ideal too and it sure sound better then our world of arbitrary edge cases but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that we're not all hypocrites.
I read about this story, and the prevailing mood on the internet around her story (outside of religious folks) has been on of Empathy and support on her right to choose her own end, but also looking deeper, this woman had been diagnosed with BPD (borderline) and was fetishizing suicide and death for a long time. She had no physical ailments or pain, at 29, she was estranged from her mother but from accounts, lived with a supportive boyfriend and pets
"Ter Beek has thought about her decision throughout the long process, which takes several years to complete.
“In the three and a half years this has taken, I’ve never hesitated about my decision. I have felt guilt — I have a partner, family, friends and I’m not blind to their pain. And I’ve felt scared. But I’m absolutely determined to go through with it,” she said."
I feel like the mental health community let this woman down, her family let her down, 3 years (considering she was NOT in physical pain or terminally ill) is NOT long enough for someone as young as 29. three years is nothing when it comes to a life. Its unsurprisingly common for young people to fetishize and glamorize suicide and looking at Euthanasia as a cure for her suffering.
I also totally, agree that she should have not been harassed as she unfortunately was on social media, but Suicide is a permanent solution to a what is often a temporary problem, perhaps if she had the opportunity to change her environment, have the chance to see that much of life changes as one gets older..especially at 29.. if this was at 43 I might have felt different..
I support euthanasia but this case seems all wrong
Zoraya’s last treatment was in August 2020, after which she says her psychiatrist told her: “There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never going to get any better.” ====
She spent a decade doing absolutely everything they could think of, including electroconvulsive therapy. Is ten years long enough for you? What else should she do in order to satisfy you?
In short everyone actually helped her.
No one lied to her by saying there was nothing that could be done. She didn't but if she had said she wanted to kill herself no one would have asked her how they could help with that but instead they would have asked her why, and followed that up with how that problem could if not be fixed at least dealt with.
The women who did this clearly had problems and when push came to shove everyone just stood around and told her to deal with them herself.
> I told Zoraya more than once that I understood her suffering, but hoped she wouldn’t go through with her decision to kill herself.
Quite obviously the author didn’t understand or they wouldn’t have put the “but” clause there.
Unless the person you're quoting actively opposed Zoraya, I don't think it's a clear example of someone who can't fathom wanting to die.
Three weeks later he returned to the same hospital with a relative and they admitted him. He had heart failure. The doctors admitted they their mistake the first time and should have admitted him.
I'm pretty sure its mostly coincidence (and skinheads/neonazi militia wanting to "train" and getting too rough for the poor alcoholic who didn't ask anything), but i the state wanted to lean on ""autodefense groups"" to get rid of a percentage of homeless, it easily could.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
The experience of going on a waitlist and not even knowing if you'll be approved, making backups for that eventuality... it paints a very vivid picture of someone at the end of their rope, trying to end the suffering.
Other people in the thread are implying it's a mechanism for the state to cull undesirables and that feels like conspiracy theory stuff / media spin to me. The state already has plenty of tools to kill those it disagrees with, why would the slow and messy and disorganised medical system have to be part of it?
This is not about people the state disagrees with, but about the undesirable of society. The risk is we get to legitimize euthanasia as a way of getting rid of the poor and homeless.
I'm absolutely horrified by the direction taken by Canada with regards to this. It is mindblowing and hard to believe for me that 1 in 4 Canadians thinks that assisted suicide should be allowed for the poor[1]. Like, how about getting them out of poverty instead? How about providing every citizen with a dignified life before we consider ways to literally put them out of their misery?
Thankfully there aren't enough doctors willing to go on with what seem like the nazi wet dream[2], but I'm left seriously wondering what's wrong with Canadian society.
1: https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/new-research-shows-one-in-...
2: https://nypost.com/2024/02/03/news/canada-halts-assisted-sui...
You think that the poor should have fewer rights than others?
I have the right to choose to end my life within the regulations of MAiD. I'd hate to think that I lose that right simply because I'm "poor".
Weird that only poor people will get recommendations for assisted suicide.
Why aren't middle class families recommended it based on their income?
I've heard a good ol' assisted suicide can solve pretty much anything nowadays!
Now you're talking about what is "recommended".
But it seems like what is really going on is that you believe that there is some kind of conspiracy to use MAiD to eliminate the poor and you are unable to have a discussion that doesn't take that conspiracy theory as fact.
If assisted suicide is allowed for a specific cause (like poverty or mental illness) then doctors can actually recommend it to patients[1][2].
I hope this helps you realize that "allowed" and "recommended" in this case can coincide.
1: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/arti...
2: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-maid-assisted-su...
Ah yes, a slippery slope. Very scary. Don't slide down it!
"The practice of referring or recommending assisted suicide has also spread well beyond the traditional boundaries of the health-care system. Notably, MAID is routinely practised within the Canadian prison system, despite similar measures proving deeply controversial in Belgium, a pioneer in assisted suicide legalization."
So don't come and "debate bro" me when you didn't even bother informing yourself beforehand.
1: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-maid-assisted-su...
>Research Co. found that 73 per cent of poll respondents favoured the current regime, and only 16 per cent opposed it.
>If a Canadian’s only affliction was “poverty,” 27 per cent said they would be fine with legalizing that person’s access to MAID. Another 28 per cent pegged “homelessness” as an appropriate bar to qualify for MAID.
>And 20 per cent of respondents were fine with MAID being handed out to anybody for any reason.
Interesting how right wing politicians only care about poor and homeless people in situations like these. Anyways,
>don't come and "debate bro" me
I would advise you to take your own advice and stop replying to me then. Thank you :)
2B || !2B
How is "I went through most treatment options available and the law explicitly requires me to do so" it being "pushed"?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/medically-assisted-d...
Need to restart eugenics? Sell it as a free pass to oblivion and prey on the less fortunate to fuel the fire.
What ever happened to "Do No Harm"? Killing someone certainly qualifies as harm. You cannot heal through death.
Harm /härm/ noun 1. Physical or psychological damage or injury. 2.Immoral or unjust effects.
Anything that promotes death as a choice will eventually be corrupted and then abused. Before long we will be sacrificing virgins on an alter to have a plentiful harvest.
<https://www.elderlawanswers.com/what-is-maid-medical-aid-in-...>
> After 10 years...
She got mental help, and at the end she got assisted suicide.