Comment by mgkimsal | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mgkimsal | Hacker News Reader

"Sell the dream and sell it hard. It’s your dream vs. their dream. Benefits are no longer a factor. The best dream wins. Good Luck."

I've hated for years how words lose some of their original meaning/intent. "benefits" is one. A "benefit" of working at XYZ company is that you get ABC handed to you at no charge. Fair enough. But when all jobs (in particular fields) come with 'benefits', there's no 'benefit' any more. I dunno - the word just bugs me. Oh, maybe it's because it's not a 'benefit' - it's just something that they're providing to you, whether you want it or not. More often than not, it's not a 'benefit' to me or my family.

"Scholarship" is another one - having "athletic scholarships" seems an oxymoron, but that's for another day...

Yes, your 'benefits' packages don't matter to me. Not really. Not much. Matching 401k contributions are nice, but often they're restricted to some lame company with too-high fees and poor choice of investment options. Healthcare? Currently, I can get it for half what most companies are paying, and personally, I think the continued involvement of employers in providing healthcare insurance is distorting the market way out of whack.

So... sell me on the dream. Tell me that your vision and ability to execute on that - and where you see me in your company's execution of that vision and we'll talk.

Hint: "Looking for senior PHP developer to work on our Magento store! $75k plus foosball table and weekly movies with the team and XBox in the office!" isn't it.

Benefits have a huge impact and should definitely be considered as part of compensation / hiring. 401K matching - as you said above, if you're getting a poor match with a bad set of funds, then a company that offers a large flat contribution regardless of your contribution (say 6-10%) and had access to thousands of funds / direct stocks would be preferred and provide a significant benefit to you.

Similarly, benefits like Dental, Medical, etc especially if you've got a family means less risk and money in your pocket if it's paid for and you have a great plan. While it would, of course, be better to just get "straight cash homey" and try to deal with it yourself I would argue that benefits are still a signficant factor in the job decision process.

As for the foosball table et al - that's more a cultural thing and less a direct benefit in my mind.

That said - totally agree that benefits are secondary to the dream and the vision of the company as a part of one's decision.

How many people turn down a job because of a benefits administrator? Do you take a job based if they have their 401k administered by Vanguard vs Fidelity?

Similarly, I've never known anyone to take or refuse a job based on a comparison of dental plans or vision plans or medical plans. They're sometimes nice side perks, but if I like the company/job/position, I'm taking it. If I don't like it, the fact that they have a better dental plan than where I'm currently at is a non-factor for probably almost everyone who'd be in that position.

tl;dr - I've never known anyone take or refuse a job because of any specifics in a benefits package.

I've never known anyone take or refuse a job because of any specifics in a benefits package.

How many people do you know with families, or with serious health conditions? Differences in benefits can make a real difference in cost-of-living if anyone in your family falls outside the "healthy 20-something with no chronic issues" bracket.

It may be hard to see these people in the startup world, because they often steer clear of even speaking to companies that can't provide these benefits.

i'm not really in the 'startup world' myself.

I've known people who've taken jobs with benefits vs jobs without benefits. But I've never known someone comparing two jobs and saying "well, this one has a $500 deductible and this other one has $1000 deductible, but the first one also has 2% matching vested over 4 years, and the second one has 4% matching vested over 3 years, so I'll go to job X".

I've done that. If the jobs are relatively equal in other aspects, it makes sense to look at the benefits. Also, I've found that the quality of benefits a company offers is a good indication of how well employees are treated. Generally, companies with awful benefits don't think very highly of their employees.

No, but there are people who say "this one offers to cover costs for my medical condition, and this one doesn't". And if those costs run into 10s of thousands of dollars, that kind of matters.

And if you're bringing any smarts to the table, you know what conditions you're especially at risk for, too, so presumably you do pick the insurance plan that is most likely to protect you from catastrophic financial losses.

(And if you make less than the tech industry usually does - say, only $25K a year - that $1000 deductible sure is a lot more expensive than the $500 one)

"I've known people who've taken jobs with benefits vs jobs without benefits."

Yeah... I mentioned that eventuality.

If you redefine "benefits", you might have a point.

Many jobs have health insurance, and thus "benefits". Many health insurances are rather picky with what they do/don't cover. If you claim that only "insurance that covers what I need covered, at a price I deem acceptable", can be called a "benefit", then sure, your mention is valid.

It's also a pointless statement.

I definitely agree with you about the benefits that seem to be tacked on. foosball table, weekly movies, free beverage, etc etc... to be are almost useless. I'm applying for a job to work, not to hang out at my buddies apartment. The only important benefits, to me at least, are the following:

* health benefits - You'd think that'd be covered in Canada, but you still need coverage for stuff like dental, prescriptions, and what not. It's surprising how many It companies DON'T offer any form of this at all. * vacation time - two weeks is nice, but if you want to attract a top shelf candidate, offer three or even four. Being able to enjoy a week away from the office is worth more then the all the free pop in the fridge.

NOw I'm not saying that I'd be against having free pop in the fridge of what not, but there nice IF those benefits that I've listed are provided in a substantial quantity. Have 100% coverage and four weeks and IMO you'd have qualified candidates knocking on your door right quick.

Well, for starters, not all jobs have the same benefits...

... like benefits at all.

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