I don't think that logic makes any sense. The "ones you meet" are the ones who didn't die. You're not meeting the dead ones. Selection bias and such. If you have statistics that Amish people have fewer deaths or something, that would be better evidence.
Can you link to any instances of an outbreak of disease from unpasturized milk among the Amish people? Or even among the general population? All I know about is one time over 150 years ago the milk got spoiled on a train in Chicago. Which is why we have pasturization.
I found this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6140832/, which seems to indicate that raw milk consumption has benefits.
Your link does seem to indicate potential benefits, so I might give it a read, but I really don't want to get tuberculosis so I probably won't drink raw milk regardless.
EDIT: before you accuse me of hypocrisy, I did post a link talking about bovine TB elsewhere in a sister thread.
I did look & could not find anything. I think marketing fuels a hysteria against raw milk. The reason why vendors say it's "not fit for human consumption" is to avoid action by the regulators. e.g. Having the authorities raid the farm & seize property. https://www.lancasterfarming.com/farming-news/dairy/raid-on-...
> I really don't want to get tuberculosis so I probably won't drink raw milk regardless
Nobody is asking you to. You have the freedom not to consume raw milk. But some people do want to consume raw milk. And there is scant, if any, evidence of the alleged problems. So why are Authorities making this illegal? I doubt it's to "protect public health". The public who wants to drink raw milk don't want the Authorities "protecting their health" in this way.
If the the TB is spreadable to non-raw-milk-drinkers then it's ridiculous to act like it doesn't affect me, and the libertarian argument doesn't make sense. I don't give a shit about the health of the people who actually drink the milk, if they want to kill themselves then don't let me stop them, but I don't want them infecting innocent people in the process. This really isn't hard.
Yet the governments that you love so much supports Gain of Function Research. Which literally caused Covid among other pandemics. And is suspiciously linked to AIDS. Yet you are worried about unpasturized milk? Your priorities are completely wrong due to your belief in governments. The same governments that cause all wars, genocides, & most pandemics.
So I agree...this really isn't hard. Unless you frame things the wrong way.
I don't really know how the government "caused" COVID, unless you're claiming that the Trump administration's handling of it was completely incompetent which led to a lot of unnecessary spreading, which I would agree with. I'll concede that the Reagan administration's handling of the AIDS epidemic was pretty evil.
I'm not terribly worried about pasteurized milk, I just said that if something causes TB, and TB can be spread person to person, that's something to consider, and it's not as simple as "if you don't like the risk then don't drink it".
I apologize if I'm incorrect. I think there's a common implicit bias that favors using force against the population. When that force does not do anything meaningful to protect anyone.
> I don't really know how the government "caused" COVID
COVID came out of gain of function research from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Which genetically engineered the Coronavirus to cross the species barrier & become contagious. The NIH & Eco Health Alliance funded this research.
Still many biolabs do Gain of Function research around the world. Funded by the NIH. The only effective purpose for these labs is to create bioweapons. Guess who will be affected by the bioweapons? Us...
> Trump administration's handling of it was completely incompetent
I'm not happy with how he pushed the experimental shots that got many people sick. And killed an unreported amount of people.
> I'll concede that the Reagan administration's handling of the AIDS epidemic was pretty evil.
Fauci was heavily involved with AIDS. I find Robert F. Kennedy credible. He wrote a book called "The Real Anthony Fauci". Which details Fauci's involvement with AIDS. And how AZT was killing people with AIDS. As AZT killed people with Cancer, which was it's original intended use.
If Mr. Kennedy is defaming Fauci, then Fauci can sue. Fauci hasn't sued Mr. Kennedy. He would have to go through discovery.
Re: TB. There are many risks for TB transmission. Unpasturized milk is an orders of magnitude smaller risk than people gathering in a public place or immigration.
Like most things medical you can't compare the risk to the population as a whole. Risk factors, environment and individual farms will vary risk greatly.
Salmonella, e. coli, and listeria have killed people so I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from. True, most people don't, but most people also don't die from flu, but some still do.
Any of the articles about it never mention fatalities.
You can get all the above from lettuce and deli meat.
That's a whataboutism, and a pivot. Just because you can get them from lettuce or deli meat doesn't mean you shouldn't consider it with raw milk.
Communicable fatal diseases are objectively scary. Tuberculosis is a communicable potentially fatal disease. You probably won't spread your e.coli. that you got from your undercooked hamburger by coughing on them, but you can spread your tuberculosis that way. These risks should thus be taken a lot more seriously and the statistics become more difficult.
I frankly do not give a shit if all you ever drink is raw milk in regards to disease that get you sick, use it to replace water, bathe in it for all I care, far be it for me to tell you how to live your life, but infectious airborne diseases are a different story to me.
I know all of this comes down to calculated risk, you can't get anything involving food down to zero risk and I never asserted as such, so fundamentally everything in regards to food comes down to "which risks do we want society to put up with?".
The reason I keep fixating on the tuberculosis point is that is a particularly nasty disease and I don't know the actual number of cases we should be willing to tolerate as a society, and AFAIK there's no TB vaccine.
has salmonella from raw milk killed anybody yet: your source says no.
it's just a matter of time before someone does die from salmonella from raw milk. Thanks to science that's a completely avoidable death, but to each their own. You're not forcing me to drink raw milk, and i'm not forcing you to drink processed milk.
and yes, wash your veggies.
You didn't say "it's usually not fatal", in which case I might agree. You said it's "your understanding that it's not fatal", so I was pointing out that your understanding was wrong.
I realize I'm being annoyingly pedantic on this, but I think it's a claim that needs to be addressed. It's important to know that you can get a disease from product X, whether it be from raw milk or lettuce or undercooked beef or whatever. Pretending that you cannot die from raw milk infections is dishonest.
I've not seen anything claiming TB is a risk even in sources like the CDC and FDA. Maybe it is, but given the small numbers of illness I'd wager it's something localized or that effects people with serious underlying health complications.
You didn't look very hard then. This was after a ten second search [1].
From the article:
> However, humans also can become infected, most commonly through consumption of unpasteurized milk products from infected cows.
Also this from the NIH [2]:
> Contamination of unpasteurized dairy products can occur by a variety of mechanisms: direct contact with bovine feces, transmission of the organisms from bovine skin/hide, bovine mastitis, primary bovine diseases (i.e., tuberculosis), and environmental contamination from insects, other animals, or humans (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2017a).
I think we’d know if people started to become massively sick, people would stop buying from the folks. We know most of the people in the area.
I'm not saying it's super likely, but it's something worth considering.
People will absolutely insist their loved ones dying is a coincidence, as long as they can frame their action as standing up to the government (or whatever they hate).
All you need is someone describing the situation as the government holding a gun to your head and telling you to pasteurize your milk (YOUR milk!), or something like that.