Am I stupid to start web design agency in 2024

As someone who has owned (and technically still does, but it's a side gig for sure) a web design company:

Let me say this: Your sentiment of "95% are terrible at it" is simultaneously probably true and completely pointless.

Here's what I've discovered. Let's assume that you really ARE making the Rolex of websites, deep down you KNOW you're the best of the best.

Too bad. It doesn't matter, because the general public can't tell the difference. They're not savvy enough to get it, so you're still at the whims of being a better "marketer" -- not of having quality.

Thus, I would say ONLY do this if you have customers in mind that you can name right now.

Agree. Until you’ve done it yourself, you probably won’t realize all the reasons why it appears 95% are bad and what actually matters to customers.

what do you mean exactly by the general public not being able to tell the difference?

I didn't mean the users, I meant the potential customers.

Websites are (still) such a subjective, sometimes personal, sometimes tied-in-red-tape etc type of thing such that "what you, or even the vast majority of web designers, would recognize as very good" and "what the customer will be satisfied with and ready to pay for" don't line up as nearly as often as you think it would.

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That wasn't very thoughtful, Chris.

Well said. Id say this goes with almost anything. Even software. As swes you want to build the best quality, lowest tech debt, beautiful crafted yada yada software. Customers won't care if it doesn't do what they want to do within their budget!

Part of the problem is that a website itself is an incredibly low-value thing in 2024. If you are a small business owner it won't actually generate revenue for you without listings, SEO, ads, etc. For the website itself a $5 Squarespace site is fine.

And if you are a big business you can afford to just hire a guy.

In your analogy, someone buys a Rolex so they can flaunt it - value is not important. But a website no one will even be able to see unless you put in the legwork to get people to it.

I still see bespoke websites as a service provided by creative agencies. Graphic and interaction designers making design statements for one-off seasonal fashion campaigns, events, boutique businesses. So my 2c is if you focus on the creative aspect it makes some sense, but still an uphill battle because high end creative work is all about namedropping and who you know, unfortunately

Right now is a very hard time to start an agency. I agree about AI not replacing design yet. However, the demand is at a very low point relative to the high supply of agencies. The main thing that matters is how you are going to find clients. If you already have potential clients lining up to pay you, maybe it makes sense. Agency clients generally choose who to work with based on trust and word of mouth referrals. This is especially true for design which does not have any licensing as a quality gate keeping device. Instead, there are just many more agencies than there are demand for because of the ease of starting them, so clients generally go with who they know.

Another thing is that there are marketplaces like Clutch, Behance, Dribbble, Upwork, etc, but they are a race to the bottom with price. If you live in a very low cost of living country, that might be ok. For anyone in the US, it's not ok.

Feel free to reach out if you want more thoughts on this as I am actively researching this topic for a book and ran an agency for awhile. forchrisroth@gmail.com

I say go for it. Most websites are bland and forgettable. Every startup site looks the same these days.

I'm not saying we need to go back to the absolutely wild early 2000s designs, but I feel like there is a need for beautifully designed websites that don't look like the standard responsive page layout of the past 10 years.

So, general things I've learned from comments are it's competitive for sure. Small businesses don't care much about how good a website looks. There is less demand for web design and more agencies and people to fill that demand. A website doesn't make such a big impact on users, so they won't pay as much or care as much about it.

So, it's becoming clearer that I should not start web design. But this discussion is not over. I want to understand the creative business more, so feel free to share your thoughts on parts of the creative world which are high in demand but low in feeling that demand.

Yes you are. Getting paid as a web studio is 90% having the right social contacts and networking IRL and less than 1% about making and delivering a quality product. You have aunts that are married to business leaders? You have friends that are politicians and can hook you up with a fake project made for you? If not, then stay clear. You'll only deal with small businesses who don't want to pay.

If you are good at making web sites you are much better off having the general public as customers and inserting yourself as a layer between business and customer.

I'd recommend to identify a market you want to serve, first. Doing WordPress websites for SMEs is a bloody red ocean. If you're up to building themes for a niche (e.g. Odoo ERP), you might be better off and could potentially grow with that niche. Then, specialize further, e.g. complete web solutions for doctors with appointment functionalities etc.

The main message is: take a deep look into a niche and their problems. Do cheap experiments to find out you're on the right track (e.g. landing page + social media marketing).

There are a lot of new agencies popping up, and probably there's still a demand.

Personally, I sell a tool[0] that agencies use to make their offering more appealing to customers and differentiate themselves from those just providing the "we build a website" service, and I currently see growing interest. The agency space is still growing, but you have to adapt.

[0]: https://www.uxwizz.com

Many larger firms who use agencies will go through a competitive tender process, and for all who are technically compliant, they choose the cheapest. It's worth considering how to navigate that if you want to be high end (which I'm presuming means expensive). Also, I'd challenge 95% of firms are terrible, what have you based that on?

There are niche markets where agencies create websites for luxury goods, indeed. Take the wine industry in France for instance. If you want to create top notch websites, maybe consider a niche and specialized market.

Don't do it.

> After revenue becomes great, I will automate

Once again, don't do it.

Only start an agency if years from now you will still personally sweat every small detail, you will still enjoy working 1:1 with clients who won't always get what you're proposing and will annoy you to no end yet you put up with it because you're a professional, you understand the value of your expertise, and you believe in the future success of their business more than they do.

Don't do this unless you're a craftsperson who cares more about the craft than the money. Because if you're really just in it for money, prestige, to boost your ego, or whatever… (a) you will very likely fail, and (b) I will be more than glad to compete with you.

Best as I can tell, it comes down to your temperament. Some people love to bill the hour and work on new things without having ultimate responsibility (or upside / downside) in operating the thing. What gets you up in the morning?

My agency does both, that's a false dichotomy.

I wasn’t presenting an either or. I said some people are motivated by doing the thing for pay but not owning / running it. This is truth and many of the best agency people I’ve known are like this.

I understand, it just came off that way. Take care!

Also, I want to target a very small market where I can dominate rather than scale

Be sure that market has money to spend on your services.

Thiel also said : "competition is for losers". He was right

The thing is, I have to do what some might consider "loser" activities right now because I come from a third-world country. If I want to build a startup or do something extraordinary one day, I need some money to support myself. I don't come from a poor background; on the contrary, I come from an upper-middle-class family. My parents can fund my studies abroad, but that's it. After that, they don't have much money left to give, and I don't intend to ask for more.

If this agency can get $50k a year in the worst case, that might not be bad because the currency conversion rate is favorable, and it provides me with some funds for the future. While I don't disagree with Thiel, I don't have the money to have zero revenue in my pocket for several years. However, I'm not naive enough to just sell a website. I will sell something creative, and the website will be a key part of that. Or maybe I will brand a business—who knows? This is my last year of college, so why not do something crazy instead of nothing?

Have you considered getting a work visa + a tech job in western Europe ?

The thing is, I want to take a risk. I want to see if I have it in me. I’ve always wanted to start a small business without being too worried about revenue. I envision a small team with creative freedom, where we ship projects we enjoy. In general, I want to have fun doing something I love.

Let me give you an example. Look at this agency, https://klioh.com/. It is run by very talented women, and I checked their pricing—it ranges from $10k to $30k. They don't have many clients, but they enjoy what they do. I had a chat with the founder, and she told me that they travel most of the time, have a small team, and enjoy great freedom in where they can work from.

I don't plan to copy her—that would be foolish—but I want to take on more complex projects while providing equally good service. The market is and will always be competitive. Startups are also inherently competitive, especially now. The job market is tough. I’m competing with Ivy League kids for internships, and I don’t like to complain about the fact that I come from India. If you’re from India and from a tier-3 college, you're likely to be ignored. It’s not their fault, but my profile doesn’t speak credibility. There are thousands like me.

Despite this, I don’t get demotivated. I still try to build projects and apply for opportunities. If I work in tech in the future, I want to do it for the purpose, not for the money. I also have a bad habit of overthinking decisions in my life. To cope with it, right now, I’m doing nothing. Even if I work, I keep thinking about it. These days, all I do is cook new things, watch TV, and after dinner, I check this thread to see what people are saying and try to understand it. Writing this long paragraph gives me more clarity for my future, so thank you, stranger. Have a great year.

Fair enough, however if your top idea is to start a web design firm 2024, this indicates that you perhaps haven't been exposed to more promising problems in any other industry. Maybe taking a job for a couple of years, in some field you are curious about, would change that.

“But I am a big Peter Thiel fan, and he and everyone says, "Do things that don't scale." So I try to do that by selling website design as a luxury product. This means I will make the Rolex of websites.”

That’s platitudes and truisms not a strategy or business plan.

Your number one leveragable asset is your network and sales skills not your design/technical chops.

If you haven’t got a network already then you are never going to find the kind of clients who can afford to pay for luxury websites. Or even need them, or even be aware enough to know they need them.

Please tell me you have a deep network, sales skills, and clients ready to go.

Good luck!

> but this is a very competitive market

It is extremely competitive. Brutal I might say.

> and 95% are terrible at it.

They are usually terrible at the software part. Because Software developers are expensive. And even with this downturn they are still too expensive to hire in an agency.

> especially those insufferable sigma males selling their courses

Well this made me laugh.

> and I might become a sheep in a big herd that will fall into an ocean of traps

That's actually the best case scenario in the short-medium term. You worst (and also highly likely) scenario is no clients.

> But I am a big Peter Thiel fan, and he and everyone says, "Do things that don't scale."

I don't think he is talking about design agencies...

> This means I will make the Rolex of websites.

Then the product is not the website/design/whatever you are building. Similarly to how Rolex is not selling watches.

Did you work for LVMH? Because that's a very specific market to target. And unless you have the clients already, then I don't see how you can break into it. (I also assume if you had such clients, you'd be already providing them a service instead of asking here).

tl;dr: If you know how to land super rich clients where a $80-100K basic WordPress website is marginal to their wallets, sure go for it man.