Comment by rramadass | Hacker News Reader

Comment by rramadass | Hacker News Reader

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Each event by itself may not be uncommon (but some like learning mathematics from absolute basics to AI/ML requirements via just Khan Academy is well-nigh impossible) but all together happening to one person which led to the claimed outcome is very very highly improbable. Real life doesn't work that way; time, energy(i.e. effort), money are all finite and wax/wane with context/environment and defines success/failure.

Also speaking from my own experience, early in my career for about 3-4 years i lived alone, working a software engineer job by day and attending a computer science course/labs in evening/weekends. The lack of proper sleep/rest/nutrition, constant stress due to work and studies almost broke me. Thankfully i managed to get through that (mainly due to my robust health) but it made me realize that if you don't have a supporting family, proper nutrition/sleep and some sort of support system (i.e. family/friends) to encourage/emphathize/push/pull you as needed there is no way for an average person to overcome all hurdles particularly when they come at you all at once. There is a reason it is impossible to get out of poverty just based on your own efforts without somebody external actively lending you a helping hand via money/opportunity etc.

As the saying goes; "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_claims_require_e...

Lots of people have done it.

I went to college but I resent the implication that the only way to make it into one of these fields is through college. It is incredibly difficult to learn advanced math outside of an academic setting, but it is absolutely possible.

Where I work we have invested in programs that take people just like me and give them an opportunity to go through a pretty rigorous 6 month program that teaches them how to develop software, work in a corporate environment, etc.

There are people FAR more impressive than me who have done more with less, and when they have come out of that program many have been able to go toe to toe with our college grads.

We’ve got a LOT of people who have similar stories, and we’re doing the same thing in accounting now. And it works.

> Lots of people have done it.

This is just a generic platitude and means nothing. Lots of people have overcome hurdles yes but not a whole lot of hurdles all at the same and over long periods of time which is what i gathered from your posts. Also as i point out it is quite hard to overcome all hurdles just by one's own efforts but you generally need some outside help whether intentional or luck.

> I went to college but I resent the implication that the only way to make it into one of these fields is through college.

You had mentioned that you were a high-school dropout earlier but are here stating that you went to college? That is a huge discrepancy and if true proves my point.

>It is incredibly difficult to learn advanced math outside of an academic setting, but it is absolutely possible.

That depends on where you are starting from, your support environment and your definition of "advanced math". For some levels you have to go to academia and study. Not everything is possible in the real world.

> Where I work we have invested in programs that take people just like me and give them an opportunity to go through a pretty rigorous 6 month program that teaches them how to develop software, work in a corporate environment, etc.

This just proves my point that you generally need outside support/help/luck to overcome really difficult hurdles. You are providing them with a break.

> There are people FAR more impressive than me who have done more with less, and when they have come out of that program many have been able to go toe to toe with our college grads.

That depends on the nature of the work itself. If it is just a matter of simple programming then maybe so but if the work needs advanced mathematics/statistical knowledge there is no way this can happen. There is a reason Colleges/Universities exist.

In the first I clearly stated that I used Khan Academy as a high school drop out and it helped me get into college.

You didn’t bother to read it before commenting because you were too busy dumping on something that didn’t match your bias, which is wrong and incredibly depressing, by the way.

And of course you need outside help/luck/support, but you’re pretending their is some binary threshold and then cherry picking from an imaginary slate of deceptions that you’ve accused me of, to imply I was too lucky or received too much encouragement. Those factors are a continuum and I received more than some and less than others; of course I’m lucky.

I’m sorry that you do not have faith in people to succeed, but I have plenty of examples. I am sitting across from an architect I work with who is also a dropout (who finds this amusing) and work with plenty of others who made the leap. I’m also sorry that you feel you have to try and tear others down to reaffirm your depressing world view.

The really annoying part is, your story really isn't that uncommon, or even that crazy - not to belittle your struggles, of course, but I've heard far wilder stories of people struggling to success.

Anyway I wouldn't waste your time too much with GP. They won't believe anything you say without you actually providing physical proof of some sort - and even then I'm sure they'd try and poke holes in it.

Oh well. I for one am glad to hear how much better things are for you, and wish you luck in the future :)

I agree, I know so many people who have done similar and more challenging things. GP probably does too, but they would be smart not to open up about it.

I actually went and got my college transcripts and requested my highschool ones but it’s not worth it. I’ll probably just use them if I make a blog post or something.

I sincerely appreciate your encouragement and wish you luck as well!

> In the first I clearly stated that I used Khan Academy as a high school drop out and it helped me get into college.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40462419

> You didn’t bother to read it before commenting because you were too busy dumping on something that didn’t match your bias, which is wrong and incredibly depressing, by the way.

I don't have a depressing world view but a realistic one because of overcoming some hurdles in my own life and coming from a country where people overcoming hurdles is rather common (India with its huge population, economic mobility necessity etc.). But in every case (including mine) there is always one or more factors which made or broke them. Thus for example, a poor farmer's child becomes a ceo/doctor/engineer/etc. because the family sold the land to fund the child's education while the father/mother became daily wage labourers to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. The child's achievement while impressive would be impossible without the family's sacrifice. Should he/she omit it from the narrative of their achievements?

> And of course you need outside help/luck/support, but you’re pretending their is some binary threshold and then cherry picking from an imaginary slate of deceptions that you’ve accused me of, to imply I was too lucky or received too much encouragement. Those factors are a continuum and I received more than some and less than others; of course I’m lucky.

No man makes opportunity or luck or can overcome all adverse circumstances. The best he can do is be well prepared by his own efforts (and with some external help) to recognize opportunity when it comes and grab it with both hands. While opportunity can be binary sometimes you can backtrack and get a second-chance. There are plenty of people who never got the opportunity and hence could never make it. The external factor is not an addon, it is essential to success/failure and should never be discounted.

> Im sorry that you do not have faith in people to succeed, but I have plenty of examples. I am sitting across from an architect I work with who is also a dropout (who finds this amusing) and work with plenty of others who made the leap. I’m also sorry that you feel you have to try and tear others down to reaffirm your depressing world view.

You started this conversation with me and hence i am defending my views and not trying to tear you down or anybody else. I just dislike "toxic positivity"/"false advertisements" which is rampant in our society to the detriment of helping deserving people. In the context of this thread, your posts came across as "i did Khan Academy while overcoming a lot of hurdles by myself which led me to what i am today" which is of course untenable IMO.

PS: I highly recommend you watch the documentary Waging a Living here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIXFyLXSBuo

PPS: These reviews give you an synopsis of the above documentary - https://emro.libraries.psu.edu/record/index.php?id=2184 and https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0455834/

> You had mentioned that you were a high-school dropout earlier but are here stating that you went to college? That is a huge discrepancy and if true proves my point.

What exactly is the discrepancy here? One can drop out of highschool, then years later, take the necessary tests, then go to college. Again, many people have done that. Is that really so hard for you to believe?

> One can drop out of highschool, then years later, take the necessary tests, then go to college.

You have conveniently glossed over events in those missing years. Did they get proper stable environment to live in, did they get enough food to eat, did they have somebody encouraging them to go to college etc. Events in those intervening years are what breaks you down or builds you up enabling you to go to college or not. In a sequence of events you cannot omit some and highlight some according to your disposition. That is called "false advertisement".

I didn't conveniently gloss over anything you didn't in the comment I was replying to.

Out of curiosity, what "evidence" would you request of GP to convince you of their story?

I’m curious too. I kind of get it too though, sometimes it’s surprising for me too.

I may post my transcripts and khan academy badges to twitter later. My LinkedIn is pretty easy to find. I’ve still got my Home Depot aprons too.

Maybe if they believe this is possible they will believe it is worth spending time investing in others. My story is not unique.

Sadly, I threw away the air mattress long ago, so won’t be able to post that.

One for each of the claims they have made; At the minimum they may have embellished a lot of the hardships they claim they faced (eg. at one place they claim high-school dropout while in another they went to college). There is a reason experts in education/psychology and policy makers declare that family/neighbourhood environment (stable/nurturing or not) and economic conditions (proper nutrition and other basic needs for shelter/safety/education) are the main predictors of whether one can get out of the ghetto/poverty and govts. spend huge amounts of money to help them out.

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