North Korea's post-modern cityscapes | Hacker News Reader

North Korea's post-modern cityscapes

reuters.com

54 pointsz759 comments

Every time I see photos of North Korea, I always wonder the same thing: Where is everyone? There are pictures of massive buildings and perfectly paved highways with no people and no cars. It’s bizarre.

I agree. How were these pictures even taken? Did they shut down all these roads?

There just aren't many cars, thats really the answer. Theres a few videos on youtube of tourists/diplomatic staff driving down a completely empty 10 lane highway lol

https://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/4...

Eh.... it's creepier than that and the not many cars thing doesn't explain everything. There are no people: there are no pedestrians on the sidewalks, no bicycles, no... life. It's much more suggestive that these cities are not productive at all and therefore no reason to be there (or allow people there as might be the case). Simple minded vanity projects of the powers that be is more what these photos suggest to me.

I suppose it's also possible that (I think I saw it suggested elsewhere) the streets were cleared for the photo... and I didn't try to find out how these photos came to be.

Everything sourced as "KCNA" is North Koren state media, maybe they just like the empty look in their architecture photography.

This "minecraft" is what the NK rulers consider art: order and simplicity. The lifeless vibe must be a part of what they consider beautiful.

I have no first hand experience of Pyongyang, so I have no way to say what's typical, but I really enjoyed this YouTube video of a morning commute

https://youtu.be/CDcfiEX__cA?si=tqSHZp2tsK_viRnA

Pyongyang by Guy Delislse also paints a charming if twisted picture of commuting in the city on foot.

If you open the photos in the article on a separate tab and view them fullscreen then you would see what there is actually people on most of the photos.

#2 lower left corner

#6 lower left corner at least 4 people visible

#10 someone walking at the 'south' end of the road, cars; a man at the storefront a bit farther; some people at the crossing and at the other end of the road

#11 there is one on the left side

#14 around 10 in the middle of the photo, cars and probably people at the farthest end of the road

#16 a lot people actually, because it's some celebration, in the middle of the photo; a lot of plain clothes (or dark coloured uniformed) people on the roads (look at the bridge)

#17 around 20 people easily distinguishable, clearly some cars at the other end of the road

Sure, this is waaaaay less than needed to convey an image of a living city, but as other people say, there is a clear bias for this type of people-less shots at KCNA.

I suggest checking out Jaka Parker's video. He's a diplomat that can go to places where most tourists can't.

Channel: https://youtube.com/@jakaparker

Here's a video of him going on a bike ride, you can see a ton of people in it: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CDcfiEX__cA

Well, not really a ton, but certainly the streets aren't empty.

At least comparing to other parts of Asia, North America, or Europe, the level of foot and vehicle traffic in that video is remarkably low compared to the size of the buildings and roads. Gives off major empty/spooky vibes if you're used to those busier places.

Western propaganda apparatuses have strict policies on what is "fit to print" regarding state enemies like North Korea, so you simply are getting a cherry-picked narrative.

Reuters could post TFA with the headline "quirky Scandinavian socialist city scapes!" and no one would bat an eye.

Yeah sure, but a cherry picked narrative is still better than the official narratives in North Korea, which happen to be completely divorced from reality and made up on the spot to make the ruling class look good.

How are these policies enforced? Can you look them up somewhere? Are they handed out to journalists once they start working at a newspaper? Who creates the policy? Are the the same in all western countries? How is that supposed to work?

It's called "editorial policy", specifically the editorial policy for international topics. The big mainstream firms like NYT even include the government in their editorial process for high-risk topics, because they don't want to publish things that might "put American lives at risk" or other euphemisms for government censorship.

Check out the career arcs for the top international editors; it's not a very ideologically diverse crowd!

These policies are quietly enforced by the systemic firing and blacklisting of journalists (and presses) that demonstrate journalistic integrity in violation of the policies.

Its like those well known China grey filtered pictures western media likes to use xD.

Can you share any sources supporting your claims?

For start, propaganda here is done not with "have strict policies on what is "fit to print"" but in other ways.

Also, few things apply so generally across all western apparatuses of any kind anyway.

Also, for North Korea just accurate info is enough so no cherry-picked narrative is even needed anyway.

Here's a particularly egregious example from just a month ago:

https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide...

You can imagine that there are similarly draconian editorial guidelines and policies for topics regarding North Korea, China, Russia, and the other Big Bads; the proof is in the pudding.

Over half the pictures are from KCNA (North Korean state media).

Sure, and most of them are pleasant/neutral pictures -- they could just as easily be from Europe. But the headline and overall framing of these mundane images is not from KCNA, it's from their geopolitical counterparts.

I have the same thought but I also wonder if it’s a western propaganda phenomenon though.

I may be pandering to a stereotype here, but I wouldn't put it past the regime there to order everyone out of half a city while some photos are taken…

You don’t have to clear everyone out to take a few pictures. You just use a few images stacked and photoshop.

They may just be renderings or heavy edits. I noticed a total lack of parking facilities for almost all buildings pictured. Highways are also pretty small for being next to what should be major traffic generators. There is also an absence of signalization at intersections where I would expect them. No auxiliary lanes or turn bays are marked on the pavement. Pavement markings are unblemished by tires. It doesn't make sense.

They're not real or nobody drives.

A quick Google says only 2% of North Koreans own cars, and they have strict gasoline rationing. Nobody drives.

The dearth of signs of life in the article's photos is disturbingly consistent with that famous shot of the Korean Peninsula taken from the ISS at night: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Korean_Peninsula_at_nig...

> Where is everyone?

In the countryside, farming land for food? I wouldn't expect North Korea to be heavily urbanized.

Wow, look at the ratio of "people wearing swimming clothes" / "people wearing suits" in the recreational water park in photo 4! It says so much.

Eh, if you take a picture of a big shot inaugurating a water park it'll probably look similar, here's Macron at the opening of a new pool for the Olympics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNT4cCWveTo

Thanks for pointing out there are more than 3 photos. When I saw the group of links after the 3rd photo, my eyes thought it was a chumbox so I closed the page. I'm glad I noticed this comment.

Those images of the residential areas at night are crazy. Not only are there no cars or people, but it looks like every visible unit is empty of any furniture or fittings. Literally no signs of life.

You are exaggerating, there's always less people out at night in residential areas and its not easy to clearly see furniture inside apartments unless you are firmly into "stalker" distances.

Compare to this picture of Seoul: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/riverside-apartment...

You can find more here, but most are from further away: https://www.shutterstock.com/search/seoul-night-landscape-re...

Those photos are quite supportive of OP. There's much more realistic diversity in the units: presence of light, color of light, objects blocking the light.

The uniformity in the NK photo is bizarre.

There is no exaggerating the difference in the night photos between NK and SK.

Every window in every building in the NK photo has the same exact lighting, but that isn't how a real city works.

The photos of SK have very different lighting coming from every window, it's a real patchwork of apartments. Different colors, light levels, and textures due to the unique lighting and furniture inside the apartment.

The NK photo is in stark contrast to this, with exactly uniform lighting from every single window in every single building, with all of the lights being on in every window.

It's kind of ridiculous to suggest there's anything similar about these two cities. One is obviously vacant and lit up completely as a show, the other is a real city with real people living real lives.

I was responding to the following statement:

> it looks like every visible unit is empty of any furniture or fittings. Literally no signs of life.

The claim you are refuting is found in another comment, you'll have to jump into another pipe to get to it.

The NK photo is exactly what empty buildings fully lit would look like. There's no furniture in those buildings, they are empty and lit up only for propaganda purposes. Nobody lives or works in those buildings.

>It's kind of ridiculous to suggest there's anything similar about these two cities. One is obviously vacant and lit up completely as a show, the other is a real city with real people living real lives.

It's a new development in Hwasong area, people haven't moved in yet. These are propaganda inauguration photos. Same lighting is what photos of empty new construction suppose to look like. Once people move in, it'll look like a "real city" see pic of Pyongyang Skyline with patchwork of different lighting. Well real relative to NKR in terms of electricity usage.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pyongyang_skyline_at...

It's a scary potemkin country.

Some of these are older (pre-2020), as a couple are credited to Danish Siddiqui - a Pulitzer Prize winning Reuters photojournalist who was KIA while covering a clash between the Taliban and ANA during the collapse of the Western backed Afghan government in 2021.

They look like artist renderings Can anyone authenticate these?

Well some do check out via Google Maps, though not as good looking.

I am impressed. I think it is beautiful. I wish we used colors more in our cities.

In these specific images that I do not know how representative they are they appear to have a more diverse architecture than most US cities.

I live in Seoul, this doesn't look that that different. Different, but not thaaattt much.

Oddly instead of making it feel bizarre, these photos almost humanized the place for me. If you told me some of these shots were taken in Manilla I'd have believed you.

Honestly, it looks pretty nice in those photos. Not sure what the intended effect was.

The buildings in the science district look amazing. Everything is so planned it looks like simcity.

I'll probably regret this, but I really want to do the North Korea cultural trip where you take a train from China to North Korea and get the propaganda tour about how awesome it is.

North Korea just fascinates me.

'control', 'bizarre': It's always funny to see how many condescending, imperialistic adjectives you can pack in a news story about the DPRK. Of course they arent just nice buildings that the government built for their people, it has to be "about control". They arent just an acomplishment from a socialist nation that during most of its history has been sanctioned, they are "bizarre".

Really, this is just propaganda, from both sides. The DPRK likes to propagandize its achievments (because they are constantly demonized in the West), and Reuters needs to propagandize how everything in the DPRK is 'evil' somehow. Horrible, imperialistic stuff.

What’s going on with the center monument in photo 13? Is that a testament to the importance of taking some time for one’s self?

It's meant to be a calligraphy brush.

Did Kim Jong Un hire the architect who did the Generic Alien Cityscapes for Star Trek TNG or something? These are truly odd.

Question: How do I know everything I’ve been told about North Korea isn’t a lie?

Genuinely those pictures look like the future.

How do we know it's the hell scape we're told it is?

I’m skeptical that things are as bad as we are commonly told. Where are all the starving, miserable people? Maybe not a lot of people there are “rich”, but it looks like at least everyone has a home and a role to play in society. I genuinely feel we probably have more lost, directionless, unhappy people struggling to make ends meet right here in America.

If my safety could be guaranteed, I’d love to visit North Korea!

Hmm.. even north korea is building large apartment buildings, it really is just our governments that are unable to do so.

To be fair, it's easier to make them if they're mostly facades for show.

Quasi-theocratic hereditary absolute monarchies also tend to have ways to make things happen that more democratic governments find difficulties with.

Good. Governments shouldn't be involved in building residential buildings to begin with.

Well yeah, but at least they have a lot of housing... The alternative is what we have everywhere else, governments not building anything and also not letting others build anything meaningful. I mean sure, in theory there are better alternatives, but not in my country and probably not in yours either, so housing in even mildly desirable areas is too expensive for normal people.

Do you honestly think this north Korean real estate is actually attainable for normal people? It's a communist country. I'd washer that you either have to wait for 20-30 years in queue to get a single room (not single bedroom, single room) apartment for the whole family, or pay a hefty bribe.

I don't know about North Korea, but in my part of the former USSR housing was very much attainable for normal people. Much more so than today, actually. You didn't have to wait in the queue for more than 3-5 years to get one, and you definitely didn't have to get a mortgage and then part with most of your salary for the next 20 years. Pretty much everybody I know got 1-3 room apartments for free, including my parents.

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