Hacker News Reader

Comment by joe_guy | Hacker News Reader

Do you mind if I ask why you still use typewriters?

You might be interested in this video about why Gen Z is starting to use typewriters again [0]. In a word, focus. They say they are often too distracted from writing when using a computer as it is easy to surf the web instead of writing your paper, so having a single purpose utility rather than a multipurpose one is actually a boon.

[0] https://youtu.be/PdYPZr1Flog

Sounds like we need a single-purpose Linux distro that only runs a word processor. Of course that's not nearly as interesting as using a physical typewriter, but it sure is easier than scanning all those typewritten pages using OCR.

I built something similar using a spare ThinkPad x220 I had lying around and a minimal Debian installation. I would prefer something closer to the AlphaSmart Neo line of digital typewriters, though.

Sounds like they need to learn how to deal with this. Turning off notifications might help as well. Eventually typewriter will not work as it's a mind issue and not a tool issue imo.

The typewriter is them dealing with it.

Isolating oneself from outside distractions to help concentration is nothing new - libraries have provided quiet places for studying for aeons.

Nah, if you don't set up on a train station platform and do all your work from there you simply have a mind issue and should learn how to deal with distractions

Why? What works, works.

Career writers have been using "dumber" text editors and computer systems to better mentally isolate their work for decades. It's not even an attention thing.

I understand to a degree but there's always 'but'.

How is typewriter any different than fullscreen text editor? You can have a quiet room with a computer no?

What I'm saying is, if they don't work on themselves, a physical device won't help long term imo. Eventually they will land back on distractions.

I don’t think this is true. They might struggle with distractions elsewhere but if they’ve created a ritual out of writing in this distraction free environment they’ve created it will probably always work for them (and maybe better over time). Having the experience of doing things without distraction might also help them ignore distractions elsewhere.

By way of analogy, learning to swim in calm waters helps you learn to swim in rough waters by giving you the experience of what swimming is even like.

I read an anecdote once that novelist Jonathan Franzen writes on a laptop which has had the WiFi card removed and Ethernet port glued shut. He's pretty successful so whatever works imo.

Why the quiet room?

Should you not rather train yourself not to be distracted by the noise like you train yourself not to be distracted by notifications?

As someone who was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of two and have dealt with it my entire life I gotta completely agree with you. The quest for quiet is impossible. You will never have completely stimulus free environments. The way our bodies work competes against this whole idea. If you're in a dark room your eyes adjust. If you are in a quiet room your ears basically have a compressor built in. Everything that was in the shadow or in the quiet will eventually make itself known. Thrive in noise, thrive in distraction, thrive in chaos.

Edit: but one thing that is incredibly important is partitioning your workspace. Perform work where work should be performed and keep that separate from where you automatically do leisure activities or seek out pleasurable distractions.

For a long time I blamed myself for things being difficult. But self knowledge surely includes knowledge of how conditions affect your nervous system. Totally plausible a given nervous system works better with a typewriter than any networked device. Even like when you have to take a break from the thinking you will be more productive pacing or taking a walk on the grounds than flipping over to y combinator.

Make it easy to be good isn't just a parenting precept, it works to manage yourself as a mature adult as well.

That feels a bit like saying you disagree with farm automation so you fired your oxen and pull the plow yourself now.

There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm empathetic to the people that feel like they can't focus in commercial operating systems, but their only option is to adapt or fall off. Making MacOS or Windows into a usable and non-distracting environment is basically the only way I have been able to make money in the tech industry. If I told my boss I was switching to a typewriter for efficiency purposes, I'd be gone before the end of the day.

How is a typewriter going to help you run an IDE? They're two orthogonal things you're comparing.

It doesn't even need to be code; I simply can't turn in work physically. If I type out my project notes or Kaizen report in a typewriter, I'll be asked to make a digital copy next. This isn't just programming, everywhere you go is digital-first and would vastly prefer a digitized copy from the start as opposed to OCRing a photo of my typewritten document.

Again - for personal use, go crazy. Nostalgic stuff is fun! This is not a solution for 90% of the workforce though and I would argue that relying on a typewriter for isolation is harming your professional prospects. Apply to any job and compare the reactions you get bringing your typewriter to the first interview with the reactions you get from bringing your laptop.

You're arguing a strawman, no one said anything about using a typewriter professionally.

It's not a strawman at all. The parent claimed "The typewriter is them dealing with it" and I am listing all of the different ways a can typewriter impair you personally.

If you don't care about the way people perceive you, how productive you are, how accessible your work is or how error-proof your product is, maybe a typewriter is for you. I cannot imagine a practical application (even casually) where you would benefit from a typewriter over a word processor and inkjet printer. I say this as someone with a typewriter not 20 feet away from where I'm standing now; they suck.

You are still missing the point of why they use a typewriter. With a word processor on a computer, I can easily start browsing TikTok instead of writing my paper. Not so with a typewriter. Of course, it has its own cons compared to a computer as you state, but to say there are no "practical applications" is wrong, as evidenced by the fact that people do in fact use typewriters as I've stated. If it were not practical at least in some small way, they wouldn't be using it.

> With a word processor on a computer, I can easily start browsing TikTok instead of writing my paper.

Is that a personal problem, or a computer one though? Many people (myself included) have zero issue ignoring Twitter and Instagram while we work. In fact, typing on a computer is much easier than using a typewriter for a number of reasons:

- Don't need to buy ink ribbons or paper to continue typing

- Don't need to stop and switch out stamps to change your typeset

- Can infinitely reproduce a single document as many times as you want

- No white-out or paper strips required when you make a mistake

I don't know if you've ever used a typewriter before, but it should simply be common knowledge that it's the slower and more distracting way to type. Every second you spend using a typewriter instead of getting comfortable with a computer is wasted effort. Every time you take your typewriter apart to make a simple change, that's time you could be spending writing uninterrupted on a digital medium.

> Is that a personal problem, or a computer one though? Many people (myself included) have zero issue ignoring Twitter and Instagram while we work.

Then it's not for you, continue using a computer. It's a personal problem solved by the use of a single purpose technology rather than a multipurpose one, as I've initially stated.

I have used a typewriter and while it can be slower than a computer, some wasted time is better than wasting all one's time because one can't focus and distracts themselves instead. Sounds like you still simply don't get it, and I'm not sure how I can explain it further as I've restated my points several times now that those who use it can't focus when writing on computers.

I don't get it. I also have a typewriter and would rather use Vi to type a term paper than even entertain the thought of switching out LATEX typesets. It's a no-brainer, it's far, far easier to dumbify your computer than it is to modernize a typewriter.

Creative writing can be better accomplished with a typewriter. Imagine yourself in a cabin in a forest, with no electricity. That's extreme, but you get the idea.

Also, having a physical copy of your work >feels< safer.

And amazingly, people did that for a century or so before word processors came along...published books and magazines, too. And before the typewriter, there was pen on paper. People really were creative before computers!

Theres a whole category of products that is just a keyboard with a tiny 3 or 4 lines of text lcd. (google electronic word processor, or Tandy WP-2). Probably not as popular today as they were back in the early 90s before everyone had a Pc, but I think they're still manufactured.

There were word processors with storage - I can’t remember how they worked but a dedicated typewriter doesn’t mean you can’t also get an electric copy.

Also found this in a quick search, basically an ereader + keyboard: https://getfreewrite.com/products/freewrite-traveler

This is why meditation is important.

People need all sorts of excuses to just calm their mind and say it’s some disorder.

But I’ve literally never met someone who genuinely tried meditation and it didn’t help them.

I used to run a meditation group at work and the dozen or so people who consistently showed up reported that it changed their life. And I’m no expert I just do breathwork and concentration on a single object like a red dot sticker.

They rather use medication or spend money buying gadgets and toys.

Oh well. Not my problem when the solution is literally built in.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that behavioural approaches should be tried first. On the other hand, framing the failure of behavioural approaches being the result of not making a genuine attempt is harmful. It may dissuade them from finding more effective treatments for their particular case, or at the very least delay them seeking help.

>People need all sorts of excuses to just calm their mind and say it’s some disorder.

Get off your high horse. My brain is literally, physically, developed wrong. It's broken. I need treatment, medication, therapy, not a fucking meditation tape. Not that meditation is bad or wrong or worthless, because I used to like it, but it's not medicine.

Do you also insist people with bad vision just try looking harder? Maybe squint a little bit more? Who needs glasses, the fix is built right in!

Medication isn't something they just hand out to anyone who asks. The reason it exists is because there is a large body of scientific research that all points to it helping treat disorders such as ADHD, whether you believe it or not. Meditation may also provide benefits, although there is less scientific evidence today that it does.

not the OP but,

I am in my 20s and I use a typewriter somewhat regularly to journal. I was raised on computers, getting the jumble from my brain onto paper is faster with a keyboard than a pen/pencil and paper. And a typewriter is nice and analog - no screen, no lights, no battery. I'm disconnected, focused, and performant.

Is it hard to find ink for it?

You can re-ink a ribbon if you're adventurous, or you can find new ribbons for many popular typewriters.

No harder than finding ink for a stamp.

not too bad. I find a lot in local garage sales and on ebay. hasn't become a problem _yet_

(I saw this in another HN thread)

https://www.ribbonsunlimited.com/default.asp

There, solved it for you ;) They make the stuff

I bought one recently at an estate sale so that I could write things without the ability to open a window and browse the web.

And, today, with LLMs it'll take you a few seconds to digitize the document, too. For this reason I've also been considering a typewriter...

OCR has been a solved problem for years. Long before LLMs started being hyped.

At least from typewritten documents that you did not torch or shred etc.

No it hasn't. Just 1.5 years ago I tried all the latest OCR tools, including AWS, GCP and Azure services, and none of them could consistently and reliably read a receipt printed at a store.

Receipts are hard.

- cheap paper

- cheap ink

- misprints

- abbreviations

- every store does it differently

Yes. Which makes OCR not a solved problem.

OCR is merely step one.

Interpreting recognized characters is another matter.

Reminds me of those tablets (and pens) that you can write on / with and they automatically digitize and OCR whatever was written, as if by magic.

Does one exist that actually works?

The iPad, with the Apple Pencil is pretty much there. It’s actually amazingly good. I have terrible handwriting, and it doesn’t seem to have a problem with it.

If anyone ever tried using a Newton, there was a series of Doonesbury comics[0] about its awful handwriting recognition.

[0] https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/mobile-computing/...

I got pretty good at writing with the Newton, but it was me adapting rather than the Newton understanding my natural handwriting (which is fairly neat given my parents are both teachers).

Yup, iPad and Apple Pencil do an amazing job, either with the built-in Notes app or several third party apps. Even better with a screen protector like the Paperlike that gives a little tooth to the screen to make it a bit more like writing on paper.

I was OCRing documents with ABBYY or Tesseract in 2000s if not a little bit earlier. I have been OCRing text documents with my phone for the last 6 years or so, with Prizmo.

It was taking seconds back then, too.

That piqued my interest for sure. This kind of thing exists too:

https://getfreewrite.com/products/freewrite-smart-typewriter...

but I'd really like to bring my own keyboard and have the e-ink display at a more ergonomic height. Combine that with Vim, and that'd be something I'd use

You might enjoy some of the full-fledged e-ink tablets (with folio keyboards, iPad style) on the market right now. Some even run Android, so you could definitely find a way to run Vim.

I was just looking at some today but the biggest downside right now is that they're pretty expensive for what you get.

It's kind of surprising that there are no "typewriter OS" based on Alpine Linux, but it's always has to be paired with hardware sales to go past prototype stage as a business, and even then the viability is dubious.

Why not just use a pen?

I can type on QWERTY much faster and more legibly than I can write with a pen. I suspect this is true for most proficient QWERTY typists.

I've never tested it, but you may be right. On the other hand a pen is smaller, and you can draw and doodle with it.

I used to love doodling and drawing, but as soon as I start to write my hand cramps up. I take hand written (short notes) for work and I struggle to read them a month or so later when the context is gone. I also really struggle to spell, and will consistently get common words wrong.

BUT on a keyboard I can type almost as fast as I can think - and I can also spell 90% better - I don't know how it happens but it is like the words 'flow' out of my fingers when i type - and I can easily spell words that if you asked me how to spell I wouldn't have a clue. Also if you asked me to find you a key on a keyboard I'd have to look - but when I'm typing my fingers just know where they are.

I'm a 44 yo successful man, but I still don't know my alphabet well (for example I couldn't start in the middle or recite it backwards) - but put me in front of a keyboard and I can type all day long (note - I am VERY thankful for spellcheck though!)

> as soon as I start to write my hand cramps up.

I always had similar problems in school growing up. A few things that I've found helpful:

- Try a larger pen. It helps you maintain your grip on the pen without as much effort.

- Try a pen with less viscous ink. If you're used to ballpoints, this can mean e.g. a rollerball. This lets you write without putting much pressure on the page, which at least for me significantly helps to avoid hand cramps. (I use fountain pens these days myself which write with even less pressure, but rollerballs are a more familiar starting point.)

Thanks, I think for me part of the cramp is a mental block - I spent a long time hating writing (and English lessons in particular) and being told I was bad at it/lazy.

but as soon as I could type my essays I loved English and writing.

You can also use your pen to draw or doodle on your typewritten documents. Doesn't have to be one or the other.

As an avid pen/paper user I can say that using a pen takes more time, plus you can't OCR it as easily as a typewriter output.

Nevertheless carrying a nice pen and a good notebook always beats having a heavy typewriter with you.

in my case, writing with a pen for long periods of time makes my hand cramp/hurt real bad (i still write on my journal daily but it's not pleasant).

(i don't have a typewriter, but i prefer to type anything because of this).

As a lefty, I've tried writing properly, and tried to like it but I just... Don't.

For some things (e.g. a one-off need to address an envelope) they are still faster and easier than anything else.

...except a pen

I don't think I would write faster with a pen than with a typewriter..?

Yes. But for the one off need described (or similar) it’s way faster to write an address than to get things set up with a typewriter.

Of course for certain forms, better legibility in many cases may make it worth it.

Yes. Post Office OCR is pretty good, but deliverabilty of hand-addressed envelopes is not as good as with typewritten addresses.

If you have really neat block printing it might be a wash.

I dont think the person you are replying to said they still use one. Just that they have used multiple typewriters in the past.

I have too, for that matter, but I haven't touched one in over 25 years.

Oh, I personally don't currently use them. This was in the past, starting from playing around with my Dad's manual typewriter. Took typing course in 8th grade on a manual. Owned a Smith Corona electric in high school. Used IBM Selectrics for school newspaper, etc. I'm old. :-)

"Have used" does not necessarily imply present use, right? More likely than just "used", but still. I hope OP replies.

Yes, used in the past. I don't currently use them, though I think they are cool mechanical marvels, especially IBM Selectrics. Those were way too expensive to own personally, but were common in offices. My personal typewriter was a much cheaper Smith Corona electric.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com