Electric Small Heat Pump | Hacker News Reader

Electric Small Heat Pump

theverge.com

17 pointssorenKaram23 comments

What does this system give you over regular mini-splits? The outdoor unit on the Quilt only does two rooms. Best I can tell, then, for our small 1200 sq/ft house, we'd need a minimum of two outdoor units, probably three. And our house is a shoebox, not the 4000 sq/ft monstrosities that are common in the area. Or for $5000 from Home Depot, I can get a single outdoor unit that will drive four indoor units.

On top of the fact that anyone walking into that room will immediately think "oh, you got a mini-split!" because there's still a box hanging on the wall. Again, what am I buying here?

And at $6500/room, great googly moogly! This is either DOA or I'm missing a fundamental piece of the value.

In my old, small, place I went ducted because we didn't have room for splits. Cost AU$10,000 (US$6,600) for the whole house. Moved to a new larger place, got split systems for the whole house. Cost AU$10,000 (US$6,600).

If I had to pay US$6500 per room I'd be bankrupt. DOA, but they'll probably con some credulous investors on the way.

indeed, it’s the Aesthetics.

Regular mini split heads are huge. They are really visible. It’s a really big turn off to many buyers.

I own a smaller unit for a portion of my home that's not connected to the main HVAC. It isn't huge. It also isn't ugly.

I don't want this. And that's because the goal of these people are to get acquired by Google / Amazon to fit into their crappy "smart home" line of products. I really don't understand how the consumer keeps getting tricked by a bit of marketing into buying products that are sold on design first and performance later. This product, functionally isn't any better than anything on the market yet comes with included obsolescence built in. For reference one of my family members still uses a mini-split system in their cabin that's over 25 years old. This thing is going to be lucky to make it 10 years based on all the additional dependencies it requires straight out of the box.

I hope consumers stop buying these types of products.

What brand?

GE Endure [0].

I also own a heat pump for the main house that's part of a duel fuel system (H/P electric & natural gas). I spent less than $200 in natural gas this year based on our mild winter. That system is Carrier Infinity [1].

[0] https://www.geappliances.com/ductless/ [1] https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pump...

That head looks quite a big larger and more obtrusive. If I really cared about interior aesthetics i’d hate it

Maybe you should look at the specs?

The smallest GE (which is directly comparable, with better performance, to the Quilt specs which should tell you something) is: * 12 7/8" (H) * 39 3/4" (W) * 8 3/4" (D)

The Quilt: * 7 7/8" (H) * 38" (W) * 8 1/4" (D)

So, while - yes, the Quilt is slightly smaller let's check out other specs...

GE [0]: * Rated Cooling BTU: 9,000 * Cooling BTU Range: 3,100 - 12,000 * SEER/EER: 30/16 * Heating BTU Range: 3,100 - 20,000 * Rated Heating BTU 47F: 10,000 * COP: 3.7 * Heating Capacity 5F BTU: 12,000 * Heating Capacity -4F BTU: 10,500 * Heating Capacity -15F BTU: 9,000 * Heating Capacity -22F BTU: 7,400 * Operating Range: 115F to -31F

Quilt: * Rated Cooling BTU: 8,000 * Cooling BTU Range: ??? - Quilt doesn't say. * SEER/HSPF2/CEE (not sure why they don't follow more common measurements): 25/11/2 * Heating BTU Range: ??? - Quilt doesn't say. * Rated Heating BTU 47F: 9,000 * ...everything else missing from Quilt "Tech Specs"...

So... You get a smaller unit. With less output. And while the outdoor unit can do double, Quilt doesn't indicate you get more with just one unit. Also, no person in the midwest should buy this until they produce technical specs that matter. I run my heat pump and it needs to be able to heat at -20F. The quilt looks significantly weaker / hiding something.

As an aside on the GE - they claim: "100% rated heating capacity at 5ºF and comfortably warm air down to -31ºF". Quilt?

If I really cared about performance of an HVAC solution I’d hate it (Quilt). Again, no thanks. Another product where the PMs spent more time working out look and feel than actual performance (or they'd have published what the unit can do).

[0] https://www.geappliances.com/content/ductless/downloads/Endu... [1] https://www.quilt.com/tech-specs

they reduced the volume by nearly half -- that's a big difference. I won't argue on performance, but again for folks who care about aesthetics this is a more palatable solution.

"Someone finally made a heat pump that looks good inside your home"

The internal air handler unit looks exactly the same as any other manufacturer. It's still ugly, and it still sticks out and doesn't integrate as nicely as ducted HVAC systems. Wouldn't homes just benefit more from replacing their existing furnace+AC systems with a heat pump if it's necessary, rather than installing mini splits in each zone and running refrigerant pipes all over the outside of the housing structure.

> Wouldn't homes just benefit more from replacing their existing furnace+AC systems with a heat pump if it's necessary, rather than installing mini splits in each zone and running refrigerant pipes all over the outside of the housing structure.

Yes, if you have an existing forced air system you can get a heat pump sized for your furnace instead of doing mini-splits. You could probably just replace the condenser with the heat pump, since a heat pump is just an air conditioner that can run in reverse. The coils inside the furnace may need to be replaced for the heat pump.

Slapping a piece of plywood with oak veneer onto the air handler doesn’t make it look any less like an air handler.

$6,500 per mini-split installed is quite high, a mini-split requires mounting the air handler and condenser, drilling two holes through an exterior wall, connecting the line sets, and sealing the holes; plus electrical wiring. $3,500-4,000 is what I would expect to pay if the mini split cost around $1,000: 8 hours max each to mechanical and electrical contractors ($150/hr) plus material and profit.

This company is marketing towards people with more money than sense who will be impressed by “wi-fi” and some oak veneer.

> For a three-bedroom house, say you were looking at installing it in six rooms (each bedroom, a kitchen, living room, and dining room — Quilt doesn’t recommend them in bathrooms) — it could cost close to $40,000.

Nobody is going to do this. Not unless they're duped into it.

In NYC to get 3 condensers and 6 internal units PRE-REBATE my top line price was close to $40k. So it doesn't seem far off of what I was quoted 2 years ago?

Plus, you don’t really need six units. My system (Mass) has 5 for a 3 bedroom house. $29k in 2021 prior to rebates.

You can get a DIY Mr Cool Mini-split (12K BTU) on Amazon for less than $1800.

The whole no-bathroom thing likely won't work well in a cold climate because the pipes in the walls/floor would freeze.

I cannot recommend Mr Cool enough. Very easy to install if you’re handy, also reliable. I’ve installed dozens of them and they’re all still working flawlessly.

A split for a single room should not be more than a $1000.

What are those prices?

Looking at cheapest units here in Nordics. 695€ install from 899€ unit... Which is suitable for 85 m^2... So I am not exactly sure what sort of rooms need two units...

I hear the criticism, but it doesn't seem out of the normal price range for the cost of an installed mini-split heat pump.

Per the Guidelines, "Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize."

Someone finally made a heat pump that looks good inside your home

I would say that original title is clickbait. Don't know if linkbait is something different.

> The Quilt system uses Wi-Fi (2.4 and 5 GHz) and Bluetooth to communicate between units and the remotes, and each Dial can also control the whole system, just like a thermostat does for a central HVAC system. The Dial has temperature, motion, and proximity detection built-in. You can also use the Quilt app (iOS or Android)

And I assume it also phones home to the mothership, which Hoovers your usage stats up for re-monetization?

Yeah, that’ll be a “nah, dawg” from me, well before even the astronomical price tag.

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