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Comment by SkyMarshal | Hacker News Reader

A simpler alternative is xylitol. Not a drug, no FDA approval required. It's a plant-based sweetener that cavity-causing mouth bacteria love to ingest, but which provides no sustenance to them. It essentially fills them up and then causes them to starve them to death, helping maintain minimum mouth bacteria. No bacteria, no cavities. Get it in mints or gum like Zellies or PUR (the only two I've found that don't include Titanium Dioxide). Take one a day after brushing in the evening so it kills bacteria overnight.

https://zellies.com/

https://thepurcompany.com/

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/xylitol-101

(Also if you have pets, make sure they don't get any, xylitol isn't good for them, especially dogs)

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Just to be clear, it's not that it's not good for them, it's highly toxic

I see it makes dogs release insulin and gives them fatal hypoglycemia, but doesn't do this to various other species. Quirky.

Isn't that the definition of "toxic"?

Not just xylitol but also mastic gum, which, in addition to cavities prevention, kills H. pylori and strengthens your jaw muscles as it's a bit harder than regular chewing gum.

+1 for mastic, completely nontoxic and it's been used for thousands of years. My cavity problems have pretty much disappeared since discovering it several years ago.

Yup! Here's one study [0]!

[0]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12747455/

Any brand you recommend?

For someone trying it for the first time, I would recommend the Falim chewing gum, available on Amazon, or the mint-flavored toothpaste at mastic.gr. If you feel comfortable trying pure mastic, the best quality that I've found are the large tears from Chios Mastiha Growers Association.

Thanks!

I can attest to its effectiveness against H. pylori. I've suffered from canker sores most of my life. The two things that have helped were avoiding sodium lauryl sulfate in toothpaste, and chewing mastic gum at least once a week.

Anecdotal +1. I've switched to non-SLS toothpaste and seen a dramatic drop in my frequency and severity of apthous ulcers (and, unfortunately, I get them often enough and badly enough that I can state causality with some certainty).

I used to have a (powerful-to-the-point-of-personal-uneasiness) corticosteroid that I would put on them to dubious effect, but I haven't needed to resort to that at all since I switched away from SLS toothpastes.

BTW, the best treatment I've found for canker sores is Canker Cover. I switched baking soda toothpaste, but I'm not convinced it had a material effect.

Kanka is better imo

Any specific brands you trust?

I buy certified masic gum from Greece on Amazon [0] from one major importer of Greek products (Krinos).

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LQLIWM/

I really like mastic, but it cuts my tongue up.

Please be careful pushing xylitol, "sugar alcohols" are neither a sugar or an alcohol. This, of course, is exactly the thing that makes them desirable as a sweetener substitute, the body doesn't really know what to do with the stuff, and, presumably, neither do common mouth bacteria. Sugar alcohols are known for causing digestive troubles, for this very reason, with the most notorious example being the Haribo "sugar free" gummies that caused diarrhea.

Small quantities in gum may be fine but sugar alcohols are increasingly being added to foodstuffs, and I'm increasingly dubious about it.

Very much this. Specially if any relative has to watch their weight or sugar intake and a lot of "No sugar added" products are getting in the house, a very worrying amount of them are loaded with maltitol and its -ol friends. People don't understand why they are felling sick eating "health food" and go through a substantial amount of grief.

Its twin brother is in serious trouble, too:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/27/health/zero-calorie-sweet...

Sugar alcohols are naturally occuring in many foods. There are also many different types, some of which cause some people stomach problems.

(Personally I can eat an entire bag of sugar free gummies w/o any ill effect, ymmv!)

> the body doesn't really know what to do with the stuff

what does that mean? does it produce toxic chemicals? is it carcinogenic? or is this just fear mongering?

swishing a xylitol solution around your mouth is also different than pouring it in every drink you have.

xylitol is a sugar and an alcohol- byt the classic organic chemistry definition. I'm not sure why you'd make that point.

FDA site on Xylitol and dogs:

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/paws-xylitol-...

Merck Vet Manual:

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/toxicology/food-hazards/xylit...

There are also Xylitol-containing toothpastes (e.g. Epic; be aware that they also make a flouride-free version that you likely want to avoid!), although I suspect the dosage of Xylitol is below the effective level.

Also, recently there was a study that DIM also kills only the harmful bacteria in the mouth.

3,3′-Diindolylmethane (DIM). Found in cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, mustard, cress, nasturtium, arugala, radish, etc)

Also sold as bisindole which is a class of natural products derived from oxidative dimerization of tryptophan.

Yup, here's the study [0]!

[0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10295630/

Ehh, I tried it, like 15 years ago, but had to stop taking it for the reasons mentioned here:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-04-qa-xylitol-teeth-swee...

What is the recommended daily dosage of xylitol for oral health?

"The recommended amount for cavity protection is 6 to 10 grams. And it's best to spread doses out throughout the day. So, if you want dental benefit from chewing xylitol-added gum, you should chew the gum for at least 20 minutes to extract the xylitol. That can be a lot of stress on the temporomandibular joints (in the jaw), so if you have problems with your TMJ, it's not a good idea to excessively chew gum."

That's a lot of Xylitol. It got expensive quickly, and I was heading towards TMJ dysfunction. Xylitol is also considered a high FODMAP, so if you are on a low FODMAP diet its best to avoid.

Wow, I've never been so inspired to continue brushing my teeth daily.

Three a day seems like overkill. I think if you brush at least twice a day, then one xylitol gum at night after brushing is probably sufficient. Kills the bacteria that grew during the day and kills bacteria that try to grow in your mouth overnight.

Xylitol upsets my digestive system. I try to avoid it as much as I can.

Xylitol is known to be a laxative, so it is only recommended in small doses. You might be extra sensitive to it.

I've been using a mouthwash with xylitol for around 5 years now and haven't had a cavity in that time. I hadn't heard about any concern with ingesting xylitol before reading this thread, but I imagine if it's a problem, a mouthwash would be a good way to avoid ingesting much.

The product I've been using is this: https://carifree.com/product/maintenance-rinse/

Also it's alkaline in ph, unlike many mouthwashes on the market. Caries need an acidic environment to do their thing, so you want your mouth to be inhospitable to them. Acidic mouthwashes may kill off the bacteria, but they make it a nice environment for any that remain to attach your teeth.

But don't you need "good" bacteria in your mouth?

It seems that it reduces bad bacteria but has no effect on good bacteria, though I'm not sure if there are enough studies on that to be conclusive.

I think the deal is that the bacteria that eats sugar produce the byproducts that mess with your teeth. If they ate something else, their waste would be differently comprised, and wouldn’t present that same threat to your teeth.

Will bacterias evolve themselves to become xylitol-resistant? That's the same reason I'm hesitant to use xylitol or the like to treat stuffy nose.

I worry this would impact your gut microflora too. Imagine the downstream systemic effects and diseases this might trigger.

No swallowing maybe

A xyletol based mouthwash?

You can put it in toothpaste too.

It does impact the gut biome, but current research suggests it's positive, insofar as we can gauge what a positive change would be.

Edit: One can easily find various papers like this: https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186...

i haven't found in xylitol gum that doesn't taste like ass. My nanohydroxyapatite toothpaste does use some in its formula tho, so I guess there's that.

Gives some of us rocket powered shits though. I’ve been known to hit escape velocity at the border mall in Basel. Well contained within the inverted engine bell and served well by powerful flush mechanism.

Lol, true it can. Were you just eating one a day and still suffered that?

Haha, no, what happened was I ate about a third of a xylitol-based chocolate bar. So far higher dose than what you described, but it's given me a deathly fear of the substance, lest I transform myself into the fastest self-propelled man.

Perhaps I'll give it a crack some time.

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