Telegram were claiming they were more secure even when they had their own home-rolled crypto. Security is not Telegram's strong point and it never was.
Crypto schemes which get broken usually follow a pattern of "something smells wrong", "we have weakened it a little bit", "we have weakened it a little bit more", "this is now completely broken", "my god why are you still using MD5, it's 2017".
We're in the "something smells wrong" or "we have weakened it a little bit" phase for MTProto2, depending on how you view it.
Are you sure about that? TextSecure was created more 10 years ago than 20. 20 years ago, we did not have smartphones.
As I remember, TextSecure started with SMS (but that was not the Signal protocol) and added "internet" messages right after WhatsApp got bought (which was about when Telegram was started).
I love the Signal protocol, but I would say it's more 10 years old (like Telegram). Or am I missing something?
It's close enough that if, say, a novel attack against OTR were discovered today, the first thing I'd want to know is if there are any implications against Signal.
Wait if it's the same why don't we just use Facebook, WhatsApp and Skype instead of Signal?
- Facebook and Skype E2EE messages are optional, and people rarely use that option, and - Those apps collect a huge amount of data outside the contents of the messages.
The fact that Facebook, WhatsApp, etc. use the Signal Protocol kind of shows that it is an accepted standard. But of course there are many reasons to use Signal (the App) instead of those apps, for instance:
- The Signal App is open source. You can check the protocol implementation before you use it. For Facebook, WhatsApp and Skype, you have to trust them (or some audits).
- E2EE is only one part: it ensures that nobody except the recipient can read the content of your messages. But there is a whole story around the metadata. The metadata say who writes to whom, and when. It essentially helps build a social graph. Facebook is very interested in this social graph. It would appear that the Signal Foundation is not. And even if it is not perfect, Signal does a lot to try to minimize the amount of metadata it has access to (and quite obviously Facebook has a huge incentive not to do that).
This said, IMHO it is still a lot better to use WhatsApp than to use Telegram, because at least you benefit from a good E2EE.
I really dislike the "hand rolled is bad" meme. Someone rolled all crypto. The questions are "who is doing the rolling," "do they know what they are doing," and "was it peer reviewed or directly and faithfully built from a peer reviewed design?"
Crypto is notoriously easy to get wrong, even if you know a lot about it - and most people do not. Secondly, proving something secure is pretty hard as well. If the crypto isn't a bog-standard algorithm in a well-known and reviewed implementation, assuming it to be insecure is a pretty good rule of thumb.
The people who take this advice are people who have respect for the difficulty of things like crypto and should be the ones implementing it, or at least on-ramped into learning how to do so.
The sorts of people who ship bad crypto because they don't bother to learn anything about the field are going to ignore this advice.
So I think as a strategy for fighting bad crypto it's neutral or maybe even net-negative by discouraging the right people from learning crypto and having no effect on overconfident fools.
Someone (Bruce Schneier?) said that the best way to get into actually inventing/implementing crypto is to first get handy inventing attacks / hacking into other algorithms and tools.
https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/18197/why-shoul...
I’d do a disservice to try copy and paste here so rather look at the top answer
It's not inherently broken, but it's sufficiently risky that it may be fair to assume it is broken. History has proven that software that's not known to be secure is typically insecure when it gets to the really hard crypto implementation. I think it's fair therefore to approximate it as "inherently insecure".
Most people in the cryptographic community agree that the Signal protocol is well-designed, is widely believed to be secure, and the authors react openly and swiftly to potential issues. Meanwhile, a lot of the MTProto crypto is just weird (that is, it does not follow standard practices of the field, without strong reasons to do so), and many cryptographers treat it with suspicion.
Additionally, home rolled crypto does not usually get the kind of security review from the cryptography community which makes it very likely that bugs of all kinds exist.
[1] https://words.filippo.io/dispatches/telegram-ecdh/ [2] http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/17/telegram-stand-bac...
All crypto algorithms, even weak ones output what looks like random numbers that can be deciphered back into the original plaintext. Just by looking at it, there is no way to differentiate between secure and insecure crypto. Contrast to a physics engine, it is hard to get right, but at least, if you did it wrong, it tends to be obvious.
Also, like everything security-related, it is adverserial. You may have some of the smartest and most resourceful guys on the planet working to break your thing. It is worse than even critical systems. Aircraft engine control is critical, people may die if it goes wrong, so robustness and correctness are crucial, but at least, pilots won't go out of their way to break it.