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Comment by cjk2 | Hacker News Reader

100% agree on this.

What I'd really like to see is less software in an EV, complete isolation between higher and lower functions, normal physical controls and an ability to run the thing entirely disconnected from the manufacturer's dragnet. It should be able to charge and be driven with all critical instruments working fully disconnected from anything and without software updates.

My colleagues who drive EVs regularly are always having a panic about software updates which break things.

I currently don't own a car as I live in a big city but I do rent one occasionally and did own a Model S for a very short time. If I was to buy a car I'd like an EV next time, but not in the current state of things.

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Wow youre missing out, car is such a fundamental freedom enabler - of movement

Yeah I hire one if I need it. Which is about 4 times a year max. I live in London UK and have a really damn good public transport system that stops outside my house, a bicycle and a massive airport on my doorstep. Incidentally I'm actually on a bus on the way to pick up a hire Polestar at the moment because I have a funeral to get to on Monday...

(Brit living in SF here) Given that this forum is slanted towards America, you have to appreciate that the quality of public transport in London is nothing like what we have here in the US other than New York City.

You're not wrong about London (I never owned a car when I lived there and that was a decade before Uber) but your worldview is skewed. If you look at American history from the last century, in cities like Los Angeles the car companies actually bought public transport railways and dismantled them in order to promote a car culture. And this is what we have.

If you live in any decent large city in Asia it's not an issue. I haven't owned a car in 12 years since I've moved to Singapore, then Bangkok and then Hong Kong. I wouldn't need a car in Tokyo, Seoul, Osaka, Taipei, Shanghai or Shenzhen either. Gosh, many people in Melbourne or Sydney don't have one.

Whose worldview is skewed then exactly?

In a big city, a car is a massive impediment as you have to find somewhere to put it. Every five years or so I forget this and drive into London for something and immediately regret it.

one does not simply drive in to London, one drives sunwise or widdershins to it.

Man, that’s just not true. I live in NYC and the number of things accessible to me and my family via public transit or bike is mind boggling. Then, when we want to leave the city for a few days we rent a car. Costs less than car insurance would be over a year, let alone maintainence, upfront cost, etc.

Everyone can live their life in the way of their own choosing, I don’t begrudge anyone who owns a car or anything like that. But I assure you it’s very, very possible to be free without owning a car.

New York is really the only exception in the US to this - world class public transportation system both within downtown areas and out to the suburbs and beyond (Acella is what all of AmTrak should have been like).

Even here in San Francisco you need a car to get around efficiently (or use Uber which comes to a point where you might as well pay for a car), plus it's impossible to fully enjoy the natural beauty further afield without a car.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. The Acella sucks if you have to depend on it. As does Amtrak. It's expensive and crappy. Public transportation is designed for getting people from the boroughs into the city center, not the other way around. If you use public trans for leaving the city it's very difficult to get from the train station to your final destination, there's just so few options.

It's not true in general because you happen to live in the one place in the US that it's not true?

Everyone can live their life in the way of their own choosing,

cool, thanks

it’s very, very possible to be free without owning a car.

If you live in one specific place and stay there.

But I don’t “happen” to live in NYC. I wasn’t even born here, I chose to live here. While NYC is pretty rare in the US a walkable dense city isn’t rare worldwide.

My point is that freedom can come in different forms. A car is one route to one form of freedom but counter to the OPs assertion I’m absolutely not missing out not owning a car. I’ve just taken a different path, one that’s available to others too.

I chose to live here.

Congratulations, but this doesn't have anything to do with what they said.

My point is that freedom can come in different forms.

No one said anything about this.

They just said cars give people freedom of movement which is true. You're anecdotes about riding the subway doesn't impact this in one way or the other. I think you're making the common blunder of someone pointing out an effect and then misunderstanding that to mean only that thing has that effect.

OP said that I’m missing out by not having a car, my point was simply that I know I’m not missing out. I’m honestly kind of amazed we’re now four posts deep in what was a not particularly important comment chain, perhaps I should expected a snark-filled response when I invoked the dreaded letters “NYC”, I should have known better.

I think you should have expected something when you thought you taking a subway means there is no point to anyone being able to drive anywhere they want.

Strange because that’s very obviously not close to what I said. But you’ve clearly started at a conclusion then worked backwards from there, so who am I to correct a work of fiction?

They made a general statement, you said it isn't true because it doesn't apply to you. I'm not sure what else you expected.

Groceries for a household with 4+ people I imagine is impossible to take home for 1 person by public transport

Most places deliver for free (or a minimal charge), so this isn't a big deal.

I live in NYC (Upper East Side in Manhattan) and I don't think I could live without a car. It's just so nice to be able to leave whenever you want. On your schedule, in your own private space. I don't drive around in the city - driving here is stressful and a huge drag. But if you ever want to go hiking or biking outside the city, or leave for any reason, having your own car is a blessing.

I'm not saying you'll save money by owning a car here, that's definitely not true. It's a luxury item in this city. But it is very nice to have one at your disposal.

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