Autopsy Cardiac Findings in 2 Adolescents Following Second Covid-19 Vaccine Dose | Hacker News Reader

Autopsy Cardiac Findings in 2 Adolescents Following Second Covid-19 Vaccine Dose

meridian.allenpress.com

32 pointstypeofhuman36 comments

My dad got Covid twice, and simultaneously had pneumonia with it once. I was afraid for his life, so I recommended he get the vaccine because I didn’t want to lose my dad.

Ever since then, he’s been incredibly fatigued, his O2 levels have consistently been under 90%, and his memory is all but gone. He misspeaks, forgets things, and misremembers details. He’s still young, just in his 50s.

I’ve felt bad every day since recommending he get jabbed with a fast-tracked experimental vaccine, because I feel responsible for negatively affecting his health. I’m not anti-vax in any other way, but there is absolutely a 0% chance I would recommend anyone, in any context, to consider this vaccine.

I would not beat yourself up on this. All vaccines or medications have some risk. The risk from this vaccine has been shown to be low, and as you say, the actual disease made him extremely ill already. It was perfectly reasonable advice to give.

The symptoms sound more like long Covid though than vaccine related health issues (e.g. myocarditis).

Sorry about your dad, but should you feel bad? Free discussion back then was so stifled many didn't even realise it wasn't being had.

FWIW, an organisation called FLCCC established in early 2020 to deal with COVID, also now has a protocol for dealing with various issues post-vaccine:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/treatment-protocols/

This site promotes ivermectin. It is a site for cranks and frauds. Stay away from the right wing crazy, folks.

Yeah, why would you give anything a try when you're in a bad situation, if that thing is even remotely associated with the "right wing"? Just don't do anything, follow the science, the CDC, the WHO, etc. Don't even dare to look elsewhere.

I dared! I dared!

And came up with this:

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/mis...

> Ivermectin is not approved by the FDA for the treatment of any viral infection, including COVID-19

Please stop spreading misinformation about COVID.

I have not said a single word about ivermectin.

Your source did -- good enough to discredit them.

The FDA also said that the vaccine was safe. Those vaccines are now being pulled by the company that produced them, citing cases where the vaccine actually damaged the individuals who took them and gave them TTS.

The existence of “Misinformation” is predicated on the idea that you have correct information. You believe you have correct information because of an appeal to authority via the FDA. However, the FDA’s word in a post-COVID world unfortunately means very little to me anymore.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/28/astrazeneca-admi...

Ivermectin has two orders of magnitude more cardiac side effects than the vaccine. It is compared to benzimidazoles which aren't light on anything.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7297930/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8087035/

Check rates for placebo, just in case. The rates for the vaccination are pretty close indeed to that, but not exactly the same.

Not enough of a difference to warrant a black box warning, but enough for "very rare".

Safety is not an absolute. Vitamin C is not absolutely safe at RDI dosages. Water has known side effects that are dose dependent.

COVID and Influenza also come with cardiac side effects, more common than the vaccine, and that is the counterbalance.

I really don't know anything about ivermectin, and I really don't have much of an opinion on it. My only opinion is that I don't think getting a vaccine helped my dad, even if it helped others, and that in the best of times, my trust in our government institutions is incredibly low, and in the case of a public health emergency, that trust dissolves to literally 0, as the health of the public is prioritised over my family's.

Whether ivermectin works or not, I don't know; I just know from experience that, for some, the vaccine simply makes them worse, and it's not worth rolling a 20-sided die if 19 faces mean you're fine, but 1 face means your health is taken from you.

> as the health of the public is prioritised over my family's.

Yes, even though you've been taught individualism as an ideal, it is not ideal for your neighborhood, city, nation, or the human race where a collective needs to be prioritized over the individual.

Sometimes we need to see that the needs of the needs of the many outweigh the few.

How very utilitarian. Sounds like the kind of mindset that could lead one to kidnap a tourist in their city, disembowel them to harvest all of their organs, and disperse them amongst some locals who needed the transplant to survive, since the "the needs of the many outweigh the few."[0]

You are objectively incorrect. Letting one's priority slip from the family to a faceless, nameless mass of strangers is infinitely worse for society than simply supporting the only people that should matter to you. I have responsibility for no one else but my family. The needs of my family > the needs of literally anyone else in the entire world, on any day, in any context. I would certainly hope you feel absolutely no different about your own family.

[0]: https://iep.utm.edu/util-a-r/#SSSH4aii1:~:text=Rule%20utilit....

Are you saying that this person's father needed to take the vaccine for the good of the many?

Wow, you are sure saving him from following all this cranky, controversial advice about taking natural vitamins & supplements while optimizing general health, that could surely backfire.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/protocol/i-recover-post-vacc...

Why would you quote a site promoting ineffective COVID treatments?

I quoted the page that was likely relevant to the topic at hand, and it looks like a perfectly good list of natural health interventions that are more likely to help than not.

Look, we're not going to get anywhere with this, you're with "trust the science" (= trust the establishment), I'm with researching things yourself, experimenting, and making your own opinion. The big difference here is there is a chance these interventions will work, whereas not doing anything is guaranteed not to.

Are you even qualified to perform medical research?

> The big difference here is there is a chance these interventions will work, whereas not doing anything is guaranteed not to.

Getting vaccinated also has done wonders for the majority.

Yeah, I don’t need to feel bad, and it’s not like I’m being eaten up with guilt, but sometimes when he can’t remember things or he gets exhausted after light exercise, I hear that voice in the back of mind that says, “If I had just not said anything, would my dad be fine today?”

It’s unknowable and thus not worth worrying about, but sometimes I just can’t help but wonder…

I'm having trouble following your logic. Aren't the symptoms you're describing commonly associated with long COVID? As far as I'm aware, people that were vaccinated that didn't get COVID don't have any of those symptoms.

You're correct. The OPs father has long-COVID. It is unrelated to any vaccine.

I’ll parrot what he’s heard from multiple doctors: Long COVID is exacerbated by the vaccine, since the primary issue was an overexposure to the spike protein. Getting COVID is bad enough, but for him specifically, getting the vaccine continued to overwhelm his body and made his symptoms worse and last longer.

I think 95% of people can get the vaccine and be fine. But for the 5% of people who it harms, it just wasn’t worth it to push everyone to get the vaccine. In many ways, we would’ve been better off in the long-term just allowing COVID to run its course, imo.

Can you cite the source on this interesting assertion, since that hypothesis was I believe discredited, and a survival of a modified or partial virus is the more likely one that's being researched?

In that it being similar to having shingles in a sense but of a different mechanism.

The source was a few of the doctors that were helping him. I don’t know their sources, but he seems like he’s gotten better since working with them.

At this point, I don’t really care if it’s long COVID or the vaccine or whatever, I’m not invested in any of the anti-vax stuff, I just want my dad back to his whole, healthy self, and seeing him struggle to walk around when, before Covid, he had more energy than me makes me feel frustrated and sad. I just want something that works!

It’s certainly taught me to never take my health for granted.

I think it's def possible to recover. It's at the very least worth trying, research high-dose niacin (gram dosages) and Dmitry Kats.

The symptoms sound exactly the same as my mid-30s unvaxed long-COVID friend.

It might not help your dad, and I'm not advising or recommending anything here, but I personally found NAC to be effective at helping me fully recover from COVID the times I've been sick and supplemented with it. Anecdotally, so have my friends and parents.

N-acetylcysteine is well known and widely used as the (only, afaik?) treatment for paracetamol overdose, so it's pretty well researched. Anecdotally, again, it also helps with brain fog (according to the nootropics community).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10390689/

It will be very interesting to see the 'media reaction' to this, compared to the AZ vaccine blood clots scandal - especially taking into consideration the ideological and commercial differences between the two. I won't be surprised if it doesn't make it into the mainstream at all, at least not in the anglosphere.

Have there been any other similar findings for any of the other vaccines?

I’m glad we can be curious about this kind of science again. Hope more research continues to be published.

Nevermind! Post got flagged and is no longer visible to those who haven't already commented!

I usually love the moderation of this site, but this seems really weird imo when it's not even very polarizing, it's literally just a relevant medical article that started to pick up steam on HN but got quashed. :(

"2022". (Back when talking about it got you cancelled...)

Can someone translate the text from medical language into plain English? It seems they found out that the vaccine can be linked to the deaths because the scars in the organs look different than what they would without the vaccine?

If that's the case, does that actually mean the vaccines were worse than more traditional ones (I mean, I think very few male teenagers died because of this, and I suppose that with most vaccines, there will be extremely rare cases of people reacting fatally to them??)?

You don't need to read the full study, just the summary paragraphs at the beginning.

>Context

They already knew going into the study that the vaccine caused myocarditis.

>Objective

To do a biopsy and see if they can find anything abnormal about this type of myocarditis

>Design

They're doing an autopsy of two teenage boys who died shortly after taking the shot

>Results

This form of myocarditis is abnormal. Its the result of heart injury caused by a family of neurotransmitters called catecholamines.

>Conclusions

The mechanism of injury was likely due to a cytokine storm, in which the body kept producing cytokines and catecholamines in a feedback loop. Knowing how to treat cytokine storms could prevent future deaths.

Didn't Covid also cause cytokine storms? Couldn't this have been caused by the disease instead of the vaccination?

>SARS-CoV-2 was not detected by postmortem swab (reverse transcriptase–polymerase chain reaction assay) in either boy.

In short, the mechanism in those rarest of rare cases is not typical even for immune related cardiomyopathy, but it is important to evaluate chances of it happening for future vaccine adjuvants and administration routes.

The adjuvants used in the COVID vaccines are rather hardcore as far as these things go, hence the common side effects (non-cardiac). For what they do, it is rather remarkable on how safe the thing turns out...

And they have to be, or the response is worse. The chances are side effects could be reduced if we get the mucosal vaccines ready.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com