If I remember correctly they are also by far the biggest poster child for OCaml, right? Blub Paradox at play here?
Yes, Jane Street uses OCaml, they have no reason to stop using OCaml, but may very well have been just as successful using another language. It's hard to tell, when we don't know the full circumstances of why they went with OCaml initially.
> but they could have been just as successful using another language.
His thesis is that finding one really good engineer in said language was 1 in 10 (10 interviews to find 1 really good engineer) whereas in more commonly used languages like Java, JavaScript, etc., it might be 1 in 100
[Edit] https://www.juxt.pro/blog/clojure-in-griffin/
If we had picked Python, it’s very boring and reliable, and the same could be said of Java. But you’re picking the lowest common denominator. I would say high performers, and the best programmers are often people that will only work in niche languages.
The problem is, there are good Java programmers, but there are also thousands of terrible Java programmers. If you pick the right niche, it’s easier to find the high-end talent. I think Paul Graham also made a very strong case that in a startup, you should be using the most powerful language you can, and that is Clojure.
When FB started to grow, it needed the HipHop VM[0] to make it scalable beyond PHP. I'd agree that PHP is a lowest common denominator and FB eventually needed to move beyond it to get to the next level.
The domain probably isn't that complicated, but the infrastructure certainly was (and this was all pre-cloud so they built it themselves).
But yeah, FB's success came from a base level of keeping the site up and incredibly good tactics to drive growth and distribution.
Also, it goes Php -> HipHop (compile PHP to C++) -> HHVM (compile PHP to a virtual machine running ASM).
I generally agree with the notion that talented folks are more likely to explore niche tech. Just be careful making the leap from "they prefer niche X" to "therefore they are talented".
Two anecdotes:
1. I'm an average programmer who likes niche tech.
2. My friend is 10x more talented than me, but he likes mainstream tech.
> Just be careful making the leap from "they prefer niche X" to "therefore they are talented".
I think I have a pretty good heuristic for finding curious and inquisitive people that doesn't rely on esoteric tech stacks.
My sense is that a lot of engineering teams have lost their way so the only mechanism they can use now are convoluted leetcode style interviews instead to filter out Senior Java Dev Candidate 43 versus Senior Java Dev Candidate 96.
I write a little about this here: Your Interview Process is Too Damn Long (and How to Fix It) (https://chrlschn.dev/blog/2023/10/your-interview-process-is-...)
I don't claim to be a rockstar developer or anything close. But my capabilities and efficiency as a developer are tightly coupled to the tech stack I use (not just language).
I moved from a job where I chose my own tech stack that I iterated over several years to one where I'm forced to use (IMHO) tools that are poorly suited to my work, and I'd say the quality and volume of my work has dropped by at least 10x.
So I think it's both. You need smart people, but they also need to be using the right tools for the job.
However, I think if you are a company doing something boring and that can only pay average, then having an interesting tech stack (including a nice language), hiring globally and having good benefits might give you a venue to compete for talent. You'll need some kind of strategy.
The paradox being: developer familiar with programming languages of level of power N doesn't recognize that languages of level N+ are better (more powerful expressively), only that N- are lesser.
These days, starting or running a financial business with less popular languages is, well, less popular.
Hey, it's not massively relevant to your story, but this cracked a smile for me.
CSFB was a big Sun shop, up to and past the time they mounted a "SunSet" initiative around 1998. Scott McNealy came and gave talks to the engineers.
In CSFP, the derivatives arm, where the quants worked, there was more of a push to get onto Excel, build a relationship with Microsoft, which included getting onto the "Cool" program which turned into .NET.
I just remember the win2k source code, the Exchange team, the mass rollout of win2k boxes, and the .NET beta of course, as you mentioned.