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Comment by bombcar | Hacker News Reader

From my travels the USA is way more concerned with water-saving devices, even in areas where there really is no water conservatory problems.

Toilets in Europe will still seem to flush using the full power of Niagara Falls, which are quite rare in the US now.

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Possibly an instance of the California effect?

National manufacturers have to design toilets for western states where conservation is a huge issue - might just be cheaper to sell those toilets nationwide than to have a different product line for wetter states.

It's due to the Energy Policy Act of 1992: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_1992#Impa...

It set a max volume for toilet flushes of 1.6 gallons and since it's a federal law, it covers everyone.

Invariably, I end up using _at least_ 3.2 gallons as it takes multiple flushes to finish the job.

If that is your normal everyday experience you should consider changing your diet and or your toilet. Neither my wife nor I clog a toilet more than about once a year. The double flush might happen once every other month.

I’d argue that clogging a toilet with any kind of regularity is still a failure of either engineering or diet.

I don't think GP is saying he clogs the toilet, but rather that a single flush does not clear it. We have very low-flow toilets, and sometimes my little kids have to double-flush. It's not about diet or anything — the toilets are just very low-flow (assuming you only have to flush once).

Definitely an odd thing to regulate federally. No reason at all why toilets in New Mexico (average annual rainfall 13") and Mississippi (56") should be held to the same legal limit of water usage.

The low flow restriction was criticized at the time for exactly that but I believe the reason it ended up in the bill is twofold: manufacturers wanted a unified standard at the national level that didn't change at the whims of 50 different state legislatures and the bill was geared towards energy conservation, not water usage. Since toilets account for 30-40% of indoor water usage and pumping water around is quite energy intensive, it does have an effect even if you're in a wet region.

> pumping water around is quite energy intensive

How energy-intensive are we talking? Compared to what?

You use more water flushing, or more water scrubbing your hands, after having to scrub your toilet due to insufficient flushing pressure.

Not to mention, I often have to do 2 or 3 flushes after a more productive session, not to mention cleaning.

Just like how I run the dryer twice on "hyper-giga-dry" if I actually want dry clothes.

I just put the clothes in the dryer and tell it to dry them.

It has a multitude of different modes, but "Normal" succeeds at this every single time -- regardless of the amount or dampness of what I put in there.

Am I doing this wrong?

You are not wrong, and I'm jealous of your dryer. There are like 5 levels on mine ranging from soggy to slightly damp.

Have you found and cleaned all the lint filters and exhaust air passages? A shop vac and/or an electric leaf blower may serve to improve throughput.

It's just a regular ass-dryer. It has a way to detect moisture (and therefore will run until clothes are dry, whatever that takes), but AFAIK that's pretty common and has been for a long number of decades. (I've never really had an issue with a clothes drier unless things had become broken or clogged -- they've all worked fine until they don't, and then they get fixed or replaced.)

But you should be jealous of my toilet: The American Standard Champion 4. It just flushes shit. There's no long-winded swirling water display to make a spectacle of dancing turds. Instead, it is fast and to the point: Push lever, SPLASH, gurgle, and the shit has disappeared. Every single time, without fail.

It scares children.

I'm jealous of all your household appliances. My last dryer had the same problem. I bought it new.

Dang.

This present dryer was free -- it's a Whirlpool Duet Sport (yes really) that is probably around 20 years old.

The toilet...was not free. Changing out toilets is never fun, especially under duress. (But this one happened to be on sale the week that buying a new toilet became necessary, which was handy. I already know that it was the one I wanted, having once had an earlier version of that model, in an earlier version of my life.)

I think old dryers are better at this. I think it's energy usage regulations that are making dryers this way. Dryers from decades ago were not subject to them.

Perhaps.

Except it may be worth noting that this dryer came to me with the matching high-efficiency front-loading washer that it was originally sold with.

I'm not near them right now, but I think they both have remains of an EnergyStar sticker on the front.

They're both very, very digital compared to what I consider "old" appliances (like the sort that had motorized mechanical timers running the show).

Sounds like you need a better designed toilet. Good low flow toilets do exist.

We replaced the old 3.5 gallons per flush toilet in our house with a new Kohler 1.28gpf unit and it flushes and clears the bowl just fine - no worse than the previous toilet with about 1/3rd the water use.

One of the best things you can do in a house is replace "early post-ban" toilets with modern ones, the very first low-flow toilets were absolutely ... shit.

EU toilets are often of the 'poop shelf' design. Which end up requiring cleaning and multiple flushes after every bowel movement.

It depends very much on the country, for example The Netherlands is a poop shelf design country, but Belgium isn't. No idea what's the reason behind it.

lower-calorie, higher-fiber european poops don't generally reach the size of american fast-food poops. but everyone loves the feeling of breaking the surface, so to promote a sense of social well-being some countries have artificially lifted the poop instead.

(the above is false, but it is unironically there so that you can look at your poop. admire the shape, the volume, the coloration. and just wait until you learn there's an easy at-home diagnostic test for diabetes mellitus!)

fiber bulks up your poop

In my Scandinavian country, we don't have a "poop shelf" either. But we don't use the American design with a huge amount of water in the bowl.

It's has a small amount of water at the bottom that receives our "output". There are also no problems urinating as it is easy to either hit the water or the porcelain wall at the bottom, that are much more vertical. Most of the accidental splashes that occur are either because the man is drunk and can't hit the toilet, or that the foreskin is pulled a bit back and doesn't contain the stream as well as it should.

Old EU toilets can be poop shelf. When I've shopped for new one in 2015, there was not a single one of that design.

As far as I know that's purely a Dutch thing, I've never seen them elsewhere.

Europe doesn't have the water scarcity issues of the US. When my brother in law from Germany visited a few summers ago he was shocked by the amount of drought news and water conservation instructions broadcast daily on TV.

That's ironic because I remember a few summers ago hearing about droughts in Europe. Looks like they may have had issues too but maybe not as public.

https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/jrc-news-and-upda...

Europe != Germany. Plenty of parts of Europe have drought issues and water saving laws.

I expect plenty of parts of the US have loads of water and no droughts as well.

They do. But most of the water conservancy laws affect sale federally. So even if you’re in a water flush area you can’t really get high consumption toilets unless you go quite used.

even in areas where there really is no water conservatory problems

Is there really an area that never faces water conservation measures?

Even normally wet Washington State is facing a drought due warm weather resulting in lower than normal snowpack, which is where much of the drinking water comes from.

https://m.kuow.org/stories/washington-state-drought-emergenc...

Canada and the Great Lakes states have a virtually unlimited supply of fresh water.

Many areas that mainly use rain/snow water via ground water aquifers haven't had many if any water conservatory issues.

Usually the problem around here is sewage capacity - but perhaps it's a population density thing, and as long as you're below a certain density and it rains enough, nothing really is needed.

Living in/near Michigan all my life and water conservation has never really been a concern, except when it comes to uproars over things like Nestle sourcing water from the Great Lakes.

Live in Michigan as well. I think we are making a huge mistake conserving water as if is scarce. We act as if water is short and about to run out. We should instead celebrate our advantage over other areas where it is in short supply.

Something to be said for not risking messing up a good thing.

The style of toilet matters in the US. The problem is that the cheapest toilets tend to also meet all sorts of greenwashing (no pun intended) certifications while being unreliable, smaller, and not very good. Tankless ones are far more expensive initially, but are more reliable, flush with greater force, and use little water.

Most toilets in Western Europe, at least new ones, have two buttons for low and high flow. Low flow is not an unalloyed good, though, it leads to sewer lines getting clogged, which can be a pretty expensive thing to fix depending on where the sewer access is.

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