Car manufacturers break promise about sharing location data with police
wyden.senate.gov
wyden.senate.gov
So, if the truth is being told, then some car manufacturers are breaking promises.
Vote your car purchases accordingly?
(Highlighting this because I'm a huge Honda fan and didn't know of the US/Global separation till I read up. Please correct me if I said something inaccurate, I'm going off memory here.)
They make most of their money in North America.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1297320/net-revenue-stel...
Assuming Dodge Ram pickup trucks and Jeep SUVs are the highest profit margin product they sell, the US might be its most lucrative market.
Volvo didn't share data too.
6.8% counts as "owned" now. Good to know.
If anybody cares, I can post more. I have not done this myself.
Please do. Information circulated that attempting to disable modules (e.g. the e-call) resulted in the vehicle returning a "cannot start" or "degraded mode", "core component missing" (or similar).
This thread has links from how to opt out, where Stellantis is selling data, to potential module pulls, and possibly faraday cloth attempts, attaching resistive dummy loads for antennas, pulling 4g modem. [it's a smorgasboard... you're going to have to parse it to find what may interest you]
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/how-to-opt-...
Jeep Wranglers & Gladiators are very similar.
This thread has links from how to opt out, where Stellantis is selling data, to potential module pulls, and possibly faraday cloth attempts, attaching resistive dummy loads for antennas, pulling 4g modem. [it's a smorgasboard... you're going to have to parse it to find what may interest you]
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/how-to-opt-...
Anyway, the head unit in my JK stopped turning off when I took the key out - so that was a fun battery-draining episode. I've been waiting for the weather to get nice to pull the head unit and put something else in there, so in the mean time I just pulled the fuse.
Of course the head unit is responsible for publishing outside temperature to the CAN. I don't care that the dashboard says --F instead of a temperature now, but on a cold start, the ECU doesn't know if the oil pressure is high because of a fault of just because the oil is cold. So if I get on the throttle even a little before the engine is warm, I get a CEL now. The joys of Jeep ownership.
JK may have more CEL's than a CJ, but a lot more comfortable ;) but probably slower than the CJ
To me, it sounds like you might have a faulty coolant thermostat. This part physically expands as engine temperatures increase. It’s essentially an analogue part.
http://sandsprite.com/blogs/files/airprime_ar7558.pdf http://sandsprite.com/blogs/index.php?uid=7&pid=462
[1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/cars-driving/which-car-...
I've mainly driven Wranglers my entire driving career and had very few problems
And wait for the next internal administration to change policy.
The issue is with the car being connected!
Security design imposes reduction of all potential sources of failure to the essential required for function...
#1 - You need a new car
and
#2 - All your new car options are connected
then
#3 - See #1
lol jk, Vancouver is too expensive, and there is no where else in NA where car ownership is optional for parents.
I could see it happen just for the Chinese to enter the U.S. market. It would also at the same time cause massive rifts in the west’s self-image of openness, equality, non-discrimination, anti-racism, etc (just like the TikTok ban is exposing) and the public will become painfully aware of the false and fake nature of our governments, if they block cars/Chinese companies without a legitimate justification.
If I were the Chinese I would do just that, not only offer cars that are not connected other than if one wants to connect their phone, but even make it a major issue and part of their identify and advertisement campaigns.
If anything, we should be grateful for this situation; in a worse world all these governments would abide by gentlemen's agreements to not act against each other when it comes to controlling their subjects, notwithstanding their differences.
TCL TVs are so cheap because they sell ads and information about what you’re watching to anybody who will buy it. Why would cars be different?
Or how to modify them to not phone home. Happy to pull fuses or connectors.
1: Aside: The idea of having to have an online account with the manufacturer in order to use a car is so ridiculous, I can't even believe I'm typing it.
Also, a car should not be like setting up an iPad. Dedicated buttons are superior and safer, but it won't happen again at this point outside of an act of Congress as the manufacturers found out it's cheaper to make just a single touchscreen.
Where is this the case? I haven't heard of this before, granted i haven't bought a car in about 8 years. My 2016 4runner has the little mayday button and gps aftermarket thing but you have to pay for the service, if you don't pay then my assumption is it's not transmitting anything. I know Tesla does OTA updates so they must be connected 24x7 but I haven't heard of that requirement for any other cars. Is it just an EV thing?
I know there are still plenty of places in the US with absolutely no cell phone much less data service, i'm assuming these cars are drivable there with maybe a "no connection" indicator. I wonder if there's a way to disable the ability to get a reliable connection without actually removing power to a component.
On the other hand, if you're driving a car with your phone in your pocket then it's a moot point. Your phone is the best citizen tracking device ever invented.
edit: i want to be clear and I agree, having to have an online account to operate a car is _absolutely_ ridiculous!
On T-Mobile it's still operational, they cancelled the sunset indefinitely. (3G is shut down though)
If your device is 2G only, needs an older SIM containing the SIM application that T-Mobile doesn't activate anymore. (I only have one of these still working). However 3G phones with 2G fallback will work on new sim cards through the USIM application (technically even esim through stuff like esim.me).
At this point I'm settled on the fact that I will never own a car newer than 2014.
ive pulled dozens of these things out for customers. For people looking to gut the spyware from their car, The "phone box" as professional drivers call it is separate from the rest of the vehicle and often located in or near the glovebox. it typically contains a riser board you can remove to disable the cellular communications for the vehicle. barring this, it has a SIM card you can physically remove as well.
note that removing either will trigger a dashboard light. you can ignore it so long as you get regular maintenance, or occasionally pop the board back in to verify youre not throwing other codes for the engine/etc...
edit: customer support scumbags for truck companies will often warn you this will "disable" your hands-free calling. it absolutely does not, as handsfree is a feature of the info-tainment and NOT the modem.
A manufacturer merely observing that you modified the vehicle does not mean that the warranty was voided.
Of course the manufacturer will claim this every time, even if it’s not consistent with the law.
I've noticed my smart TV has a separate wifi module on a card that I've been meaning to yank.
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-...
> Hyundai’s privacy policy says, for example, that they can share data with law enforcement and governments based on “formal or informal” requests. Kia’s policy says they may share data in many scenarios “if, in our good faith opinion, such is required or permitted by law”
The disaster is that there has been a large enough component of buyers that did not care about the issue, and that had no idea of the possibility of the issue.
It created this perverse market together with many others.
If, if this disastrous piece of history ends up well, the reaction to it will be a market that demands repairability, vendor agnostic.
Among the circulating information about new vehicles is, for example, that * batteries may tend to drain in days and * a flat battery cannot be simply replaced or restarted: the car must be brought to its manufacturer's service premises. Evident absurdities like this could trigger a reaction, they should wake up people...
It could and should make people want to be able to fix their car themselves.
Just as third party shops can repair any vehicle and have access to the physical parts. Consumers and repair shops should have access to the firmware that control the features of the car.
I should be able to reflash the firmware with a compatible replacement and be good to go.
The integrated car system is just stupid. Your "opt in" to smart systems should all be done through a mobile phone that can be easily upgraded and replaced.
At most a car system should just be a dumb interface to a console screen, microphone, speakers, via bluetooth or plugged wire.
Also, keyless fobs are terrible, their failure conditions around battery failure and hardware failure are awful, they can't be replaced easily, they are outrageously expensive, and they open up far too many vectors for electronic theft of cars. Every fob I've had has a shelf life of about 5-7 years, while keys will last decades.
How is there not a "low tech" option for all the boomers? Kind of like the manual vs automatic transmission option?
Advertise a brand of auto that isn't capable of spying or conspiring against you, has a full set of tactile controls, infotainment is special order - and that doesn't blind oncoming drivers.
Make the ads a parody of everyone else' driving experience.
I have a wandering eye when it comes to cars but I'm sticking with a look but don't touch policy.
"If Law Enforcement requests access to real-time information for a period of more than 48 hours, HMA reserves the right to require that Law Enforcement obtain appropriate legal process (e.g., a subpoena or search warrant) or customer consent within the initial 48-hour period to authorize continued disclosure of real-time information."
[0]https://www.hyundaiusa.com/content/dam/hyundai/us/com/pdf/sa...
The first matter is: what entitles automakers to keep any location data.
Well it has some definite drawbacks, does it not. Would it not be better to have custom positioning systems, with data stored in secure repositories?
... And it's not just theft, it's also "wow this parking lot is huge..."
Well, of course: I meant "a secure repository /for the user/" :) I.e.: you could trust the law (as well done and respected), or you could stay on the safe side. Taking a look around, I'd take the safer side.
> "wow this parking lot is huge..."
Like opening a trunk through feed waggling or radio control of windows for those who are prone to leaving open sunroofs during storms - at the cost of adding complexities and possibly exposure to faults and malice... The first violently blinking one being "no need to press a button to open the car anymore, proximity suffices".
Everyone makes their own decisions on tradeoffs: the option - which they may like, which may leave them indifferent, which they may not want at all - should not be shoved in the throat of the users.
And with the important detail that the article reveals (see the quote) that they keep at least weeks worth of data - which does not sound necessary.
The government privacy/rights exposure is just a side effect, it's not some governmental conspiracy.
They want to sell you. Your location information, implied demographics, etc inform advertising and marketing.
Even if they said no to the government, the government can either get it from the second-line databases that track you, or in sufficient cases, the three letter agencies certainly have all the information from either the automakers or, again, the next round of consumer information databases that buy the info from the auto companies.
(This warrant-less data sharing increases contact with the police, which increases the chances of a fatal encounter, and the incidence of them overall. So, if it's life-and-death on one end...)
Alternatively, if you're willing to disassemble the dash, you can remove the DCM entirely and replace it with a dumb plug that just reconnects the front speakers and mic directly to the infotainment system. One more caveat - some cars are missing a 5V power supply for the microphone, which is otherwise generated by the DCM. The signal exists on the head unit but is missing a pin, probably to save the $0.001 that this pin costs in quantity. You need to either add this pin, acquire that 5V supply from elsewhere, or install a voltage regulator that steps the 12V IGN supply down to power the microphone.
It seems that very slightly older Subarus have a problem with the 3G shutdown where the DCM goes into a braindead loop, trying to establish connectivity continuously and draining the battery. As a result, many shops are familiar with the procedure of finding and removing the DCM (to replace it with a newer one or reflash it, not sure which). Perhaps I'll see how much my local independent auto repair place would charge to remove it and replace it with the dummy plug.
See this thread for more information:
https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/disconnected-cars-non-...
They don't give a shit lol. They will talk up "the rule of law" but all they mean by this is order. They can arrest who they want for whatever and the courts have to sort it out.
Outside of work they know they can get away with anything up to murder. In fact on this specific subject while we're on it, having volunteered extensively with domestic violent victims it is unreal how many of them are the spouses or girlfriends of police. Cops using surveillance systems to stalk women is routine.
It serves no one if criminals are protected under laws that are designed to protect the innocent.
The privilege of operating on public roadways imposes some obligations on vehicle operators. What those obligations should be is a pros-cons trade-off that has little to do with the criminal-guilt threshold.
If the tech is cheap enough, there are a lot of hypothetical upsides to constantly tracking every multi-ton machine on the road. Observe, for comparison, the FAA requirements for flight plans and running a broadcasting transponder to safely operate an airplane.
If the tech is cheap enough, you could argue that there are hypothetical upsides to having a tracker implanted inside every citizen as well. After all those citizens are capable of illegal behavior and must be monitored.
If, some day, most people decide it's worth it to track every individual, the law will bend to allow it.
If you're talking about ADS-B, the only parallel to a database that is owned/operated by manufactures of the vehicles is that they broadcast a signal -- but that's where any form of parallel stops/ends, because the signal from vehicles is not intended not to be broadcasted in such way as to be publicly consumable; which is precisely why the car manufacturers control a monopoly on that data and why law enforcement goes to them for the data.
Planes could arguably operate just as safely before those transponders -- they just couldn't be tracked publicly by anyone (or each other) in real time. Being able to track something doesn't - automatically - infer any upsides, whatsoever, just that we know where the plane is and/or went.