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Comment by kvdveer | Hacker News Reader

Why would IpadOS not be held to the same DSA rules as IOS? Apple has applied the same model of gatekeeping (walled garden) to both the iPhone and the iPad. DSA attaches requirements to the gatekeepers if they are big enough.

Software similarity and market positioning don't really come into consideration once the role of gatekeeper has been established.

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Doesn't this mean that game consoles should be gatekeepers too like from sony/nintendo/microsoft?

I 100% think this is the case, my guess as to why they're not targeted yet is just that they're less visible to regulators.

I'd like to know if there's another explanation.

Consoles are not defined as general-purpose computers (except for a time, the PS3), and there aren't many complaints from the game industry at large about access discrimination or unaffordable devkits any more, there's tons of indie games for just about every major platform these days. So, too much effort for too little gain, there is no artificial competition impediments any more.

The only complaints tend to come from gamers - DRM, "console exclusive" titles and lootboxes, mostly, but of these three the only realistic field where the EU can/will/should intervene is the lootbox crap.

It's the same for iPad, not defined as general purpose, no complaints about unaffordavle devkits (xcode is free), tons of indie apps.

Xcode is free but a developer account isn't (nor is an Xbox Dev account either for that matter)

You can sideload apps with a free account, but only 3 signed at once and for a max of 7 days. There are also some entitlements you can’t use.

The iPad was heavily marketed as a computer replacement so definitely is supposed to be "general purpose" device. Many people I know don't use a laptop or desktop at all, and just use their iPad.

iPad marketing has historically focused on how it's _not_ a computer, so if people bought the marketing that is an implicit indication that they weren't looking for a general purpose computer.

Here's iPad marketing: https://www.apple.com/ipad/why-ipad/

--- start quote ---

Yes, it does that. And then some.

iPad is so versatile, it’s more than up to any task. Whether you’re working on a project, expressing your creativity, or playing an immersive game, iPad is a fun and powerful way to get it done. Here are just a few of the countless things you can do with iPad.

--- end quote ---

And it has historically been "it's like a computer, but in tablet form".

Here's how Apple introduced iPad Pro just a year after it introduced iPad as a product: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2015/09/09Apple-Introduces-iP...

--- start quote ---

The new iPad Pro will enable a new generation of advanced apps for everything from productivity, design, illustration, engineering and medical, to education, gaming and entertainment.

The innovative Apple Pencil and new Smart Keyboard enable users ... making iPad Pro ideal for everything from professional productivity to advanced 3D design.

--- end quote ---

Or in 2016 here's Apple announcing how it will transform businesses with Deloitte: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2016/09/apple-and-deloitte-te...

--- start quote ---

Deloitte is creating a first-of-its-kind Apple practice with over 5,000 strategic advisors who are solely focused on helping businesses change the way they work across their entire enterprise, from customer-facing functions such as retail, field services and recruiting, to R&D, inventory management and back-office systems.

The new offering will help customers discover the highest impact possibilities within their industries and quickly develop custom solutions through rapid prototyping.

--- end quote ---

etc. etc.

Last year, 7.4 million games consoles were sold in Europe. And 57 million iPhones (as far as I can see they don't report numbers on iPads). Like, I think it's fairly obvious why they concentrated on iOS first.

The markets are too small for DMA to apply IIRC

Yes, but the number of their EU users are too low for that: https://www.trueachievements.com/n52977/xbox-store-eu-users

They definitely are, and I bet they're already further down the checklist.

They most likely are, but Microsoft actually does allow sideloading on Xbox in some capacity.

I don't believe that's true. Can you provide some details? There are some programs indie devs can use to get software on Xbox, but they require approval from MS, which is the opposite of side loading.

It's a separate developer mode you can boot into locks you out of retail games. You can even do RetroArch (emulators): https://youtu.be/2uZu1hITwy0

Interesting! Thanks!

Consoles are (still and mostly) singe purpose devices. While I do approve force opening every Turing complete device to side loading - game consoles are way down in the worst offenders list.

It's control of the market that matters. Apple (and Google) each effectively control 40%-60% of the world market on digital goods. Pay Apple 30% for your app and 15-30% for all digital goods. That's unacceptable because their market is so large. 2 billion+ devices each (or is it 3 billion now?) 100s of thousands of companies are under their thumb. Don't follow their rules, loose 50% of your entire market. Do follow their rules, lose all your profit.

Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft's markets 2 orders of magnitude smaller and effect 3-4 orders of magnitude less companies.

What is the market for digital goods and how does PC distribution factor into your definition?

That doesn't really change much. Assuming the numbers are correct, there are 6 billion people have smartphones and 2 billion have PCs. That still means Google and Apple collectively control the majority of world's digital distribution. I suspect many of those PCs are not used nearly as much as the phones as well and have far less digital content on them (apps/music/movies/games/books)

Well, only if they have the extremely large amount of users that is required for the gatekeeper status to cover them.

Because it doesn't meet the criteria. To summarise heavily, they are:

- Size criteria:

    Have an annual turnover in the European Economic Area (EEA) of at least €7.5 billion in each of the last three financial years, or

    Have a market capitalization of at least €75 billion, and

    Provide the same core platform service in at least three EU countries.

- Control an important gateway:

    Provide a core platform service which is an important gateway for business users to reach end users.

- Entrenched and durable position:

    Enjoy an entrenched and durable position on the market, operationalized by having had at least 45 million monthly active end users and 10,000 yearly business users of the same core platform service in the EEA in the last three years.

In fact, the EU has admitted that iPads do not meet the criteria, and are making an explicit exception to include them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm _very_ happy about this, but you asked ;)

EU isn't making an exception in this case. DMA empowers the commission to investigate, and even declare as gatekeepers, products that do not meet the quantitative thresholds on the basis of qualitative assessment.

Following this decision EU Commissioner Thierry Breton said: “We continue monitoring market developments and will not hesitate to open new investigations should other services below the thresholds present characteristics to be considered important gateways for business users,”.

per the commission iPad passes the threshold for business users elevenfold.

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