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Comment by zeteo | Hacker News Reader

I'm sure there are legitimate cases where sedation is reasonably the best available solution. The problem is - who draws the line? There was a case the other day where a university professor was tackled to the ground, her head hitting the cement, and forcefully handcuffed because she had tapped a police officer on the shoulder asking him to stop what he was doing to a student. She was booked for assaulting a police officer, which is clearly a "combative" thing to do. Do you think the officer who tackled her down and then climbed on top of her should also have the authority to inject her with a sedative at his discretion? Do you think that, in an environment where simply not following directions promptly to the full satisfaction of the arresting officer can result in being tased or even shot, law enforcement also needs to be able to sedate people whenever they find it appropriate?

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> Do you think the officer who tackled her down and then climbed on top of her should also have the authority to inject her with a sedative at his discretion?

The person you're replying to is, assuming they're not lying, a medical professional.

> Do you think that, in an environment where simply not following directions promptly to the full satisfaction of the arresting officer can result in being tased or even shot

Are you suggesting that a person trying to bite folks is on equal legal footing with a college professor tapping an officer on the shoulder? In any case, sedatives are unquestionably less lethal than guns (and probably tasers, where Google suggests hundreds of people die in the US from being tased by the police each year). Putting aside whether the officer's discretion in such a situation is being wielded appropriately, sedation (by the numbers) is essentially never a worse option than what police have at their disposal already, no?

The person you're replying to is, assuming they're not lying, a medical professional.

Medical professional, sure... But not a doctor. Not a nurse. And often facing immense pressure from LEO (even nurses get pressured).

Are you suggesting that a person trying to bite folks is on equal legal footing with a college professor tapping an officer on the shoulder?

You missed the whole point.

>The problem is - who draws the line?

The local EMS Medical Director. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK526093/

There's not a single instance in the article mentioning the EMS Medical Director being consulted in any of the 94 cases gone wrong (much less being held accountable). Multiple cases where the EMTs were pressured by the police, though.

The ems director publishes standing orders.

It is impossible to consult with the medical director, or even medical control, on all cases so you rely on protocols and standing orders to perform your duty.

All jurisdictions have standards for sedation.

If any clinician feels pressured by the police to do something contrary to the standard they should call their ems supervisor— they’re paid to be mean to cops and charge nurses.

People have thought of all of this already.

I expect systems to be as perfect as I am, so “im-“.

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