Comment by simonh | Hacker News Reader

Comment by simonh | Hacker News Reader

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However for Apple to keep making money they need to satisfy their users, so as with all commercial relationships there is a direct commercial incentive that aligns customer and vendor interests. The interesting question is how and why those interests align, and when and where they diverge.

The answer to that will be different for different customers, or potential customers. A lot of iPhone customers like me are quite happy with the devices more or less as they are. The vast majority of people complaining about iPhones aren't iPhone customers. Frankly I don't really see why I should care what they think.

I'm more sympathetic to actual iPhone customers, or former customers that left, but looking at the numbers satisfaction levels with iPhones are through the roof. This is a teeny tiny proportion of customers. The case for Apple harming the interests of customers directly is super thin.

The other main dimension to this is Apple's commercial relations with other companies, mainly app store developers. I'm sympathetic to the idea that such relationships should be regulated to at least some extent. I'm glad controls on links to external payment options are being opened up, and there's pressure towards more equitable revenue structures. I think this is the main area Apple's control of the platform is open to abuse, but IMHO that doesn't extend to third party app stores. The current app store should be properly regulated, I think third party stores are a complete distraction. They'll never take off, and are probably going to be a worse experience for users.

The vast majority of people complaining about Apple aren't Apple customers because they don't agree with Apple's business practices or treatment of customers, I don't think that's surprising or invalidates those opinions.

I tend to agree that the focus on "3rd party app stores" is stupid, I'd much rather we force computer vendors to have unlockable bootloader's and focus on consumer rights legislation, ensuring people can own the things they buy.

> The vast majority of people complaining about Apple aren't Apple customers because they don't agree with Apple's business practices or treatment of customers

Given that a very large number of these people buy Samsung products of all companies, the idea that they’re avoiding Apple on ethical grounds seems somewhat unlikely.

Satisfying your users - particularly, satisfying them only enough that they don't spend significant effort and money to leave - is an incredibly, laughably low bar.

It’s dead simple to switch from Apple to Android and vice versa. Or are you trying to say Android is such a significantly more difficult platform that Apple users are too stupid to figure out and thus locked into iOS? Otherwise your argument applies to Android as easily as it does to iOS.

Dead simple until you consider that you have to (a) buy a new phone (b) transfer all your passkeys (c) transfer all your apps (and find replacements for those that don't exist on both platforms) (d) transfer all your data/log in to all your accounts... etc.

It's anything but dead simple. (And I went from Android to Apple back in 2020 and back to Android in 2021. It sucked, both ways.)

Most people buy a new phone every few years as it is, app passwords are the same between platforms, and the average user only uses about a half dozen apps. No one is locked into iOS nor Android. We are talking about 2-3 hours of effort to switch, hardly a ‘anti-competitive’ burden. Get real.

If only the DOJ had thought of your idea before they launched the huge antitrust case against Apple! They might have saved themselves so much time!

‘Tis true. Much time and money would be saved.

> Most people buy a new phone every few years as it is

Yep, which is unlikely to coincide with the latest screwover from their platform of choice, giving them much less motivation to switch at that time. But you're right, the expense only prevents some people from switching.

> app passwords are the same between platforms

Until they're not. Heck, I've encountered apps that didn't support any way of transferring your progress across platforms, although the example I can think of (Clash of Clans, or maybe Clash Royale) fixed that many years ago. But there's still plenty of instances where I needed to add another login method to my account because some methods just weren't supported on the other platform.

Meanwhile if you keep using the same platform odds are you'll just be logged in because it will either be in iCloud or your Google account.

> the average user only uses about a half dozen apps

I doubt that very much. I guess maybe the average user is old people who still only use their phone for calling, texting, and maybe directions? Yeah you're right it doesn't affect them too much. Other than remembering to turn off iMessage if they switch away from Apple.

Get real.

Just because I bought an iphone, doesn't mean my interests align with Apple when they price gouge me for extra storage, or when they use child labor, or when they continue to create products which fill up landfills due to their anti-repair stance. Apple will suck up as much money as they can get away with - which is capitalism. I would argue there is no "alignment" of anything here. Its up to each individual to examine the facts, and decide for themselves what their own personal threshold is.

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