Western Music Isn't What You Think
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>They were slave groups, conquered by the Greeks in Asia Minor.
This is incorrect. Each of these were separate civilizations and not names for a "group of slaves". This can easily be verified by a simple search so I don't even understand where such a misattribution comes from.
And this has to do with it being faster and easier to travel on water than land back then. So it unified people rather divide.
There is no line because there is no western culture, civilization, values, anything. It's a political term invented for superficial political goals. Just like the idea of 'the west'.
Ancient greek civilization based around the greek language, culture, religion, etc. Yes. What exactly is the language, culture, religion, etc of 'the west'. There is none.
If you think there is a 'west', then try defining 'the east'. It's an artificial designation that changes depending on one's political biases.
Sure.
> and Greek culture was certainly influenced by Egyptian, Mesopotamian Persian cultures (which are often not considered "Western")
No doubt about it. Especially ancient egyptian civilization. The ancient greeks themselves have said so.
> but for example China
There was some contact, but certainly not as much between mediterranean peoples. That's obvious.
> the Americas had no direct contact with Europe until much later and developed in isolation to each other.
Who cares?
What's your point? Your comment didn't address what I wrote. I said there is no such thing as western civilization. Just like there is no such thing as eastern civilization. Not sure what the point of your comment is.
The point is some cultures are clearly not part of Western culture, and some (such as the pre-Columbian American ones) had absolutely no contact direct or indirect with the West until the colonial period. So it does make sense to make a distinction even if the boundaries are blurry.
That's my point. No culture belongs to 'western culture' because there is no such thing as 'western culture' or western civilization.
> So it does make sense to make a distinction even if the boundaries are blurry.
Yes. It does make sense to distinguish between say Egyptian civilization and Hebrew civilization and Greek civilization and Chinese civilization and Indian civilization and Mayan civilization and so forth. But there is no distinguishing 'western civilization' from anything because it simply doesn't exist.
Not sure if you are being intentionally dense but my point was clear. Maybe you should go back and read my original comment that you replied to.
Tell me what western civilization is. Even if the boundaries are 'blurry' try giving us the broad strokes. What is the language or culture or ethnicity or religion or customs of western civilization. It doesn't exist. That's my point.
It mixes iberian, Gypsy, Arabic and who knows more genres under a very complex guitar tune (Paco de Lucia would be either the Alan Turing or Knuth of guitar players) with even more complex singings.
The rest of the country had jotas/aurreskus/muñeiras and so on, a kind of dance with hops, jumps and kicks to the sound of flutes/tambourines and drums, very different to flamenco and a far simpler structure, pretty common across Europe.
Nowadays, I'd recommend Medina Azahara, a group which mixes flamenco with progressive and psychodelic rock. But it wasn't the first one to do so; Triana did it before.
And then, there are things that jump out to me as false, that could be true, but because the author cites ZERO sources, it's unclear if he's ignorant after 30?! years of research or has an interesting insight.
It's so unscientific, and it's sloppy useless writing like that that makes some people say that the social sciences aren't sciences.
The people who enjoyed the modified music would not recognize the pre-music-executive versions.
It's hard to imagine a modern lover of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbe5RERDh4k not recognising or appreciating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWM82eQKdQk
Pre and Post Paul Simon ( Graceland (1987) ) mbaqanga music didn't change that much
Pre (1983) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq6qRpEZVTY
Post (1987) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR7UbvhVT8g
(1977) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2D8Eo15wE&t=32s
EDIT: I like the Lead Belly interpretation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fii6PX0-VXs because it sounds like you start to swing the hammer on the beat, but it has enough inertia to land on the spike off the beat.
Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeGImvYpk2U
I'd argue that despite the change in pace and instrumentation the original form and song can still be recognised and appreciated, the first version of this I heard was Lead Belly in about 1982 or so .. not a lot of TV in my part of the world growing up and not much time for that in the 'big' smoke at uni.
Going back to the GP assertion I still argue that people that enjoy modern modified forms of music can still recognise and appreciate the earlier forms.
as a geek, I'm a sucker for pedal steels, but lap steel gets the job done too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgKRgb6nOis
Depressioncore rules, ok! (from the comments: "I guess you guys aren't ready for that yet. But your [grand]kids are gonna love it.")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfBQ3bNNwHs
Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHhzvRZ2j6M
Their influence goes much farther back than you believe.
I am saying that there are formulas that make music widely popular, and the Hollyweird types knew those formulas before we started recording music. Everything you will ever hear is heavily influenced by them.
Edit: Wanted to add that the alphabet is a western linguistic concept that’s common to all western languages.