Balaji Srinivasan calls for tech to "exit democracy" and seize local governments
newrepublic.com
newrepublic.com
What's ridiculous is that you can look at governments today, at any level, and imagine them being run worse.
We live in a complex reality full of nuance, not a cartoon.
But anyway, it's a fallacy to think that just because something is bad, replacing it with just anything at all would be an improvement. The thing you replace government with would have to be better suited to it, which there is just no basis for saying Silicon Valley is. In fact, there's enough evidence that SV is bad at governing their own very very small kingdoms, even with the benefit of an existing infrastructure and rule of law, established by others, in place.
Man, it's weird for me to be in the position of defending government. I'm not that guy. But tech leadership is just laughably unsuited to replacing them.
So, as you say, the tech people are unsuited for this role - maybe even uniquely unsuited. But they don't know what they don't know, and in blissful, arrogant ignorance, they decide that of course they'd be great at it. They wouldn't. They'd be terrible at it, even at local government.
Of course that isn't significantly different than authoritarianism: "Government is easy, just kill anyone that says anything bad about you".
Turns out democracy is just really hard.
Americans are so spoiled by their state, it can be better, but it can be so much worse.
The stability of western governance breeds the idea that this is just the natural state of things. Same thing with anti-vaxxers thinking we don’t need vaccines because they have no memory of what life was like before them.
That's a pithy and meaningless statement that doesn't add anything constructive to the conversation. If we take it as true, then we'd have to assume that you're actually optimistic about government, since it suggests that the only direction we can go is up.
But of course the reality is that that for as dysfunctional or corrupt as we might see some operating government, of course it could still be even much worse so still. That doesn't even require imagination, since examples abound across modern geography and even recent history.
If you can't even imagine things that are plainly visible in reality, then, sure I can see why you might struggle to imagine what could be worse. But we're not all so afflicted.
Yeah there are simple things that can be improved, like not using physical mail, and better appointment handling and such. That exists. But if you talk to people working in this business... those are the easy parts and people are working on those.
Then there is thousands of requests for building permits and these have to be checked, or people die because of buildings collapsing. And you need a skilled person to look at each individual location one at a time, because of physics. Those parts are really hard.
I am not having any illusions about Tech companies who are either running as dictatorship or feudalism (Board + C-suites making decisions like aristocracy), rest either goes along or is punished.
its so embarassing that the types of people like balaji represent us as an industry. my friends outside of tech world now treat being a software developer as a red flag
Any of the creators of the "Silicon Valley" TV show want a pitch for a new season?
I assume “grays” is riffing on the alleged alien type, and truly the whole master plan is like a caricature of a conspiracy theory.
Yes fellow humans, you enjoy your so called “banquets” do you not? Prepare to submit to my rule!
Originally described in 2014 as: "typified by libertarian political beliefs, Dawkins- style atheism, vague annoyance that the question of gay rights even comes up, eating paleo, drinking Soylent, calling in rides on Uber, reading lots of blogs, calling American football “sportsball”, getting conspicuously upset about the War on Drugs and the NSA, and listening to filk – but for our current purposes this is a distraction and they can safely be considered part of the Blue Tribe most of the time"
But since then the tech world went off the deep end into anti-wokeness and the left has (rightfully imo) come to resent tech and tech companies so they've moved to be on the side of the "red tribe"
So basically, they were Republican kids from Republican families too embarressed to admit that to themselves or others.
For gay rights, see Log Cabin Republicans, out and proud gay Republicans, so basic acceptance of gay people having a right to exist doesn't make you automatically Blue.
And of course, blue tribe hates them, too. Grey tribe's social progressiveness is mostly an accident. They're perfectly fine selling weapons to war criminals just as much as they're fine selling lattes at a gay pride parade. And the shit they did to build up and then tear down red tribe's electoral chances could easily just be applied to blue tribe this time around.
[0] After four years of deliberately exempting him from their own moderation rules, of course
[1] Narcissistic personality disorder
It’s not an accident. It’s rooted in the counter culture moment that was that basis for Silicon Valley moving beyond weapons manufacturing and embracing the internet.
> “Grays should embrace the police, okay? All-in on the police,” said Srinivasan. “What does that mean? That’s, as I said, banquets. That means every policeman’s son, daughter, wife, cousin, you know, sibling, whatever, should get a job at a tech company in security.”
Politicians do this today. Deep blue politicians in New York have the police in their pocket just as much as in any red state.
> “A huge win would be a Gray Pride Parade with 50,000 Grays,” said Srinivasan. “That would start to say: ‘Whose streets? Our streets!’ You have the AI Flying Spaghetti Monster. You have the Bitcoin parade. You have the drones flying overhead in formation ... You have bubbling genetic experiments on beakers … You have the police at the Gray Pride Parade. They’re flying the Anduril drones…”
> Everyone would be welcome at the Gray Pride march—everyone, that is, except the Blues. Srinivasan defines the Blue political tribe as the liberal voters he implies are responsible for the city’s problems. Blues will be banned from the Gray-controlled zones, said Balaji, unlike Republicans (“Reds”).
This is literally what a gay pride march is.
> While the Blues would be excluded, they would not be forgotten. Srinivasan imagines public screenings of anti-Blue propaganda films: “In addition to celebrating Gray and celebrating Red, you should have movies shown about Blue abuses … There should be lots of stories about what Blues are doing that is bad.”
Ever watch a Michael Moore film?
but I do think that your explanations make sense, or rather- while I think he is earnest in wanted a new state ruled by "Grey Tribe", given the book listed at the top he wrote: The Network State: How To Start a New Country, but these specific complaints do feel like he's doing a mean Haha gotcha, how would it feel now ?? sort of style
Or I guess put another way, I think he is both earnestly wanting it but also choosing these examples to be a comparison so it seems "fair"
We desperately need more democracy in the workplace.
Arguably, this one is more on-topic than most politics. Also arguably, the discussion hasn't degenerated (yet). So, maybe flagged just because of politics, rather than because the discussion is awful.
By the way, flagging is done by users, not by the moderators. So it's us, not YC, that thinks this is problematic (or likely to become so).
>"described a speech in which he “told a group of young entrepreneurs that the United States had become ‘the Microsoft of nations’: outdated and obsolescent.”
“The speech won roars from the audience at Y Combinator, a leading start-up incubator,”
I think this article is the most on-topic there could be.
The users here that want Tech News and Tech News only are doing themselves, and the community a disservice.
User flags can be overridden by moderators. There are some very notable examples, usually I have been very impressed by this.
So far, this is not one of those cases.
>Even more disturbing, however, is Balaji’s tight connection with Tan, the Y Combinator CEO who has publicly aligned himself with the Network State for years. “I legit believe [Y Combinator] is a prototype model for what @balajis talks about when he says the Network State,” wrote Tan in August 2022, shortly before he was named CEO.
The quotes cited are straight up fascism...
I must be misunderstanding something. Please someone explain this to me.
This is such a wonderful, perfect metaphor for who Balaji is and the merit of his ideas.
Please leave SF alone. It’s a city with a ton of problems, but it’d be a whole lot worse as whatever, um, this is.
I honestly genuinely hate that I have to push back against non-tech folks hating on tech people and assuming we’re all like Balaji and Musk. However, the amount of people who support them makes me take a step back and realize that I really might not fit in with the tech community at all. Stuff like this disgusts me.
By this logic everything is a battery, a $100 bill is a battery, ...
So a reverse CHAZ?
> Btw, I rarely post personal news on here, but I moved to Asia awhile back and will be splitting time between India and Singapore .
> Why? They are optimistic on technology, they’ve brought hundreds of millions of people online, and they both speak தமிழ் & have great dosas!
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1355088787286544384
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Meta Edit: I would just like to add that this one of the most vibrant recent discussions, with many 5 digit karma posters, and this is not a flame war.
This seems to happen a lot in the last couple years. Some of the most interesting discussions now appear to happen, post-flag. What does this mean for HN?
It's pretty much this.
SF has issues, but a lot of that is visible only because the Financial District directly neighbors the poorest part of the city (Tenderloin, 6th street, civic center)
One particular one I saw recently was an individual in NYC saying "I was really afraid to come here because of what they are saying on the news, but really this is not much different than my hometown homelessness wise".
Seems like a new form of "Missing white woman syndrome".
It's always had a transient issue, and the high availability of support resource, the conversions of RSOs into hotels and airbnbs made visible, and the increased gentrification of SF (upper middle class white collar families didn't live in Mission, much of the SoMA-Potrero flatlands, much of Castro, etc until the 2010s) made these extremely visible.
Now that hybrid work has been normalized, I expect to see housing in the inner city (Tenderloin, Union Square) portion of SF to become significantly affordable, as those boutique hotels are returning to their RSO roots. And it already has based on the lack of rent increases with my former landlord's management company (all the 1-2 bdrms their renting out have stabilized in the $1500-2000/mo range in the inner city areas)
The city still has a lot of value in the tech ecosystem, but there's a reason the tech industry is called "Silicon Valley", not San Francisco. The gravity has always been in Santa Clara County, and always will be, but now San Francisco County has a decent bigtech scene as well (which didn't really exist there before the 2000s).
I’m not sure it’s just about hybrid either. To the degree that at least certain cities are increasingly seen as having more cons than pro I expect a lot more people will pass especially to the degree they’re not more convenient for working. Of course this can become a cycle as it has in the past.
Much of the city has issues and it spills into the other neighborhoods, but campaigning primarily on the plight of those specific neighborhoods (which, with exception to pac heights and Mission bay, are where much of the problems are most severe) isn’t going to get you elected to citywide offices.
What you are missing is that extreme wealth insulates them from any significant personal consequences of their logical imaginativeness, so such feedback never gets incorporated into their logic.
If the rest of us espoused fascism and then lost our jobs and standing in our communities, we would be in real trouble.
For the tech uber-wealthy (pun intended), money is community. Your community (peers or acolytes) will keep boosting you as long as you have it, because it completes the circular logic that explains your success.
Think of it this way, the yes man will enable the leader to drive the fully loaded truck at 100MPH even when the brakes are bad. The yes man also won't tell the leader they are rapidly approaching a cliff either.
We spend our lives specializing into ever smaller subdomains of already small domains. A lifetime of bending your brain in one direction, being well compensated, being told you are smart... it leads to tremendous gaffs once you step out of your little specialized world.
It's important to maintain a deep humbleness and acknowledge the gaps in your knowledge. Don't disregard experts in other fields because they are saying things that conflict with your biases. Learn to identify your biases and think about how they may limit you from gaining understanding. It's much more fun to go through life with the attitude of not knowing everything and listening to people who know what they know.
Often the best work is done when combining the knowledge of people from different fields. Humility is important but more collaboration is needed, not less.
I do think that past successful collaboration can lead to a bias though. As a programmer I've solved problems for a variety of disparate industries and fields. I know just enough to know I'm vastly ignorant of those fields save for a little part that I helped solve problems for. But I've seen colleagues go the opposite route.
Lately I've been watching videos tangential to conspiracies. Too many choose defensiveness when the truth is easier and more interesting.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MhkTo9Rk6_4 https://youtu.be/RJTbcfHY3AU
This is wealth brain.
> A lifetime of bending your brain in one direction, being well compensated, being told you are smart... it leads to tremendous gaffs once you step out of your little specialized world.
That's not explained by simple engineer brain, plenty of us engineers are not in this position. But those who are wildly, exceptionally successful under capitalism, get their ideas (good and bad) reinforced more and more. They look at their success - money, power, fame, influence, and believe it is due to the correctness of their ideas, not due to the exact stupidity of humans they look down upon.
I have just observed that the threshold is low enough that many middle-class engineers achieve it (I've always lived in low cost of living areas where engineers get to live pretty comfortable lives relative to their surroundings. But that's just my one data point). Their folly tends to be more banal, like ordering Ivermectin from Mexican pharmacies or endlessly talking about nuclear power in a near utopian fashion. Admittedly, pretty harmless stuff compared to the article.
We're discussing this article, after all, right? We know who Balaji is. While look at how many very rational "Show HN" posts here fail to get traction or reach the front page.
Oftentimes, there's a kernel of a true idea behind the hype, but it's been taken to the most extreme form possible simply because the most extreme form is the only one that goes viral.
Thus social media drives society insane.
This video will make you angry is correct yet again.
What mechanisms can fix this?
I only see evidence of wealth. Not talent, skill or ability.
From the wikipeida: Smith has appeared on the Neoliberal Project's podcast multiple times[21] and was labeled the "Chief Neoliberal Shill" by the group in 201
And to be completely clear, noeliberalism and leftism are NOT one and the same. Leftism is defined by a goal of communism or socialism. "Smith has expressed disagreements with socialism and communism". Calling Noah (Or Biden, Or most mainstream democrat politicians) leftist is totally incorrect and one of my pet peeves that online commenters tend to do.
Not necessarily true, see: anarchism. There are certainly anarcho-communists, but not every anarchist is a communist.
You ever stop and think that the authoritarians may have been lying to you?
Outside of communist thought (wherein socialism is a stage on the route to communism—and the only concrete stage to which there is a roadmap in most communist thought, though different schools of communism have different maps), socialism is a thing sought in its own right by socialists who are not communists.
Obviously, its unsurprising that a Soviet high school would only teach the dogma of the particular brand of communism then currently held to be orthodox in the USSR, but that's a rather limited view.
I'm sure there's better definitions too, but neoliberals are not a leftist in any of them.