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Brutalist Churches

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It seems like most new churches in Finland are brutalist concrete slabs at least from outside.

They are called "defense bunkers against devil"

Some pictures:

https://twitter.com/sorjonen_fi/status/916606080154767361

https://twitter.com/ArtoNatkynmaki/status/168386825764259020...

https://fi.wiktionary.org/wiki/piruntorjuntabunkkeri#/media/...

Not just the new ones - it's a very scandinavian lutheran trend. Tapiloa Church for e.g. https://www.google.com/maps/@60.1783778,24.8091179,3a,75y,15...

However there's also the church in the rock which is absolutely stunning and worth a visit. https://www.temppeliaukionkirkko.fi/en/index/nimi.html#

Wow that google street view image is unspeakably grim. Looks better flipping through photos on google maps. Looks like the other side has some big windows.

Near(ish) where I grew up there is a Lutheran church also has that domed flying saucery look about it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7109737,-87.849723,3a,75y,35...

Their domain is pretty funny too: https://www.spaceshipchurch.org/ :')

Our family used to attend Newman Hall Church in Berkeley, California back in the '90s -- a very brutalist building of a church. Although religion never took for me, I had fond memories of the after-church donut feasts in the community space. I don't know if the intention of the architecture was to get me to focus on the mass, but young me just spent the entire time taking in the strange geometries of the place. https://maps.app.goo.gl/3TtT716k3bUkdAVh6

I was just going to mention that one!

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=newman+hall+holy+spirit+parish+ber...

I've been there once and personally, quite like that aesthetic. But the thing that sticks with me was the priest proclaimed the Gospel passage from the bible word-for-word from memory rather than reading it.

If you're ever in Reykjavík, check out the Hallgrímskirkja. Completed in 1986, located visibly, on a hill. From outside it's very impressive, with the soaring spire shaped (IMHO) like a supersonic aircraft ascending vertically. A stone angel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallgr%C3%ADmskirkja

https://www.re.is/is/blog/guide-to-hallgrimskirkja-church-re...

https://yourfriendinreykjavik.com/hallgrimskirkja-a-tribute-...

Ah yes, the church of The Binomial Distribution. Quite a sight. And if you're in Reyjkavík anyways, you should go visit my favourite brutalist church, Áskirkja. Straight out of the Lord of the Rings. https://live.staticflickr.com/5743/22683689714_cff8ae8af1_b....

Also, don't miss out on the botanical garden and its café, it's right around the corner!

Shouldn't churches evoke feelings of divinity instead of oppression? (I know it's popular to hate on brutalist architecture, but really isn't a place of worship the last place you'd want it?)

Haven't the churches been [historically] oppressive?

I get that it's popular to hate on religion too ;), so I suppose that's ironic to some.

is it though like really? >6 billion people in the world actively identify with one religion or another but in terms of ratio there are more memes on social media about athesim than religions at least on my AI curated feed

There is plenty of hate speech towards non-believers if you look a little bit for it. In fact, I'd even say that as unfunny and overseen atheists memes are, they are the most tame of all religious critic online.

Depends on your scale. On one hand, all institutions are oppressive at some level. On the other, Christianity is the foundation of the free society you (most likely) live in.

I wouldn’t give so much credit to Christianity, or any religion. The modern west is built on enlightenment ideas, not least of which is the separation of church and state.

Why are you finding brutalist architecture oppressive?

They tend to look like something someone who didn’t give a shit made. “I just need a box for people to be in, who cares what it looks like?”

The example brutalist churches in another post here look like someone doing a horrible experiment in the Sims made buildings without bothering to use anything but some default wall texture they found buried in the dev tools that doesn’t even tile very well, because they just needed a place to torture Sims in and don’t care what it looks like.

Yeah, that comes off as oppressive.

The oldest churches direct you to the heavens and God.

Early modern churches direct you to the preacher.

Modern churches direct you to the architect. (Or building repair services depending on whom you ask.)

I don't see it that way at all. A lot of care and thought went into these designs, and they evoke the kind of awe you would expect from a god's house. These aren't just hulking concrete bunkers like some of the institutional brutalism you see.

Maybe these architects should think, why their "well thought" experiments just look lazy designed.

They don't. Are you telling me that you look at this and think "what a lazy design"?

https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2024/04/sacred-modernity-b...

30 seconds of Google search https://www.re-thinkingthefuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2020...

You think this is well thought.

That isn't one of the buildings we were talking about. Indeed, in the post you responded to, I contrasted them with

> hulking concrete bunkers like some of the institutional brutalism you see.

Please make more thoughtful responses in the future.

We were generally talking about brutalism and I searched shortly about sloppy designed example (besides many real life example I am unlucky forced to see)

Please think more next why people disagree with your opinion. Also see it as a hind to be more thoughtful why brutalism is so unpopular.

Yeah, I mean it seems to me you just searched for some random picture and made literally no commentary about it. It looks completely fine.

I always find it weird when people have this „everyone hates it“ attitude with no real commentary whatsoever.

I made several comments on this thread about the problem on this architecture.

Do you live in a area with brutalism ? (if not , why do you like it?) Have you ask random passengers about their opinion?

It's not natural, grey is a stupid colour, no ornaments. Only architects like brutalism.

But I am happy to know that brutalist churches in Germany will be destruct at first than older churches.

> It's not natural

A point of brutalism is "form follows function and "showcase the bare building materials" (1) - in other words, that's how the material looks, naturally. Bare, unpainted concrete is in fact more natural and honest than painted concrete. And brutalism deliberately leans into that naturalism (of modern materials).

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture

The impression of Unnatural comes from the fact, that brutalist forms don't exist in Nature. Concrete is everything but not a natural material. Showing it isnt natural.

I am still buffed they are people defending brutalism. It is one of the biggest mistake in Architecture and one day these buildings will vanish.

> I am still buffed they are people defending brutalism

You are confused, describing is not the same as defending.

> It is one of the biggest mistake in Architecture

I don't necessary agree, but I didn't even take a position on that.

> and one day these buildings will vanish.

Over enough time, so will all buildings. But the sturdy one will last longer.

Bricks and glass panels also don’t exist in nature. Only we humans bring them about, just as we do with concrete.

Yes, it would be more natural to live in a cave or a wooden hut. There's a long essay on the subject from a guy named Ted who put it into practice.

The forms used in classical architecture are way more natural than just stupid plain concrete.

Brutalism is beautiful

They could soften it up by adding some plants. Eco-brutalist!

Depends on who you ask. It's a somewhat common belief that churches should be plain and unadorned and that religious art can lead to idolatry. Ideas like that were particularly popular among early Protestants.

Many of the brutalist churches I’ve seen do not, IMO, “evoke feelings of oppression” (aside from any one might have as a result of personal conflict with the religious institution behind them, which is a separate issue.)

Including, I should mention, most of those in TFA.

I suppose we just have to chalk it up to different tastes in art. To me, my first thought on seeing most of those pictures is how they look like settings for some implausibly dystopian sci-fi movie.

No doubt. I find these churches amazingly beautiful.

I also think in the sense of how a church in 1500 was not a relic of the past the way we view a church from 1500 today. I would say a church from 1500 was much closer to what the churches in this article would have been in 1500.

Of course, there is a real issue that while I find these amazingly beautiful I would never go to one because I am not the least bit Christian or religious.

Somewhat to that last point, my emotional reaction to these structures would be completely different if I knew they were designed to be car parks.

I don’t have a car, but I would love for the parking garage near me look like the churches in the article (putting aside the practical differences in requirements). Similarly, I would welcome one on these church buildings replacing one of my neighborhood churches just to give us something different to look at.

Probably the most famous Brutalist public art in Texas, the Fort Worth Water Gardens, was indeed used in filming of Logan's Run.

I've generally found the Brutalist buildings in Texas rather ugly on the exterior at least, but did find a sense of comfort in occupying them; perhaps there's something cave-like and solid about their atmosphere. I did enjoy visiting the Water Gardens; I think it's a good expression of the style.

However, many of the churches pictured here are on another level. Something about the austere concrete juxtaposed to the wooden pews (and speaking as someone raised Catholic, it's hard to imagine a pew brutal enough to satisfy god) works quite well for me. I'm really impressed by some of these.

Yeah, it's different tastes. I'm split on these in a different way than I've seen in the other comments, because I generally hate brutalist buildings from the outside, but think the interiors are fantastic (including most in TFA). When it comes to churches I think that's somehow symbolically appropriate.

Interesting, nearly all the photos in the article did for me.

Brutalism IMO relies on imposing designs. In outdoor spaces, this can lead to feelings of oppression, as anyone who has traversed a high-rise complex at night can attest.

When there is enough space, such as in a church, library, public transport infra etc, the concrete monoliths suddenly become more distant and less threatening and you can really appreciate the effect of being in some kind of ancient future ruin.

> Brutalism IMO relies on imposing designs

I disagree. Brutalism is based on dropping any pretense of the material used to construct the building. No shiny glass veneer or facade, just concrete buildings reveling their concreteness with no artifice. If large middle age cathedrals are supposed to inspire a sense of the devine, then IMO brutalist churches inspire a sense of guilelessness.

our perhaps evoking the feeling of being a part of something bigger than yourself? which brutalist architecture absolutely does.

I don't really see what's oppressive about any of these buildings. Many of the qualities of the divine are recognizable in these churches. Simplicity, transcending of the natural world, and so on.

When people talk about the divine, especially in the Abrahamic traditions, it's common to talk about what God isn't. (negative theology). You shouldn't make an image of God. To approach the divine is to remove everything that isn't divine and experiencing what is left over.

And I think that's fantastically realized in the austerity of these churches. I've visited some of them, my favorite one isn't actually mentioned here, it's a pretty small church outside of Osaka, the Church of Light by Tadao Ando. (https://youtu.be/7ZtfYOD5I8M)

Gothic architecture also feels oppressive, at least to me. I believe that is working as intended; dread and awe bring us closer to the divine.

Not to me. I find it uplifting and joyous. I find the same of the best of the modern churches (brutalist or otherwise0

How does divinity feel? According to the bible you drop dead instantly if you gaze upon the face of God.

These church spaces eschews color and decoration and instead shape the light and the space itself to give you a feeling of the divine.

These all look like churches that I would encounter with blood everywhere in the middle of a first-person shooter. They also look like total acoustical nightmares. All that echo-ey concrete, yikes.

Sometimes the concrete is exceptionally well designed and you can fill the church with a single singer.

Others are so badly designed you need literally millions in audio equipment to have a simple choir.

Quake??

Mostly I was reminded of the upside-down church zone of System Shock 2. That's one of the few FPSs I bothered playing.

Brutalist architecture can be done with good acoustics in mind, it just takes the same sort of planning & design that a non-brutalist building also needs.

The Barbican Centre in the UK is a very famous example of a music (and arts) venue with brutalist architecture, and while its acoustics are considered good but not amazing (or "serviceable", to use the description of conductor Sir Simon Raffle), it could have been much better but its problems weren't caused by being brutalist.

This person's blog is worth a quick read (ctrl+F for the section about the Barbican): http://trevorcox.me/what-is-wrong-with-londons-concert-halls

And I really love the Barbican, including how it looks from outside and including how it feels to sing on its biggest stage. An exterior photo: https://www.ansador.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Barbica... And interior example: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/93/1f/52/931f52e58c9b1a2f9330d050a...

I lived there for a year (there are blocks of flats there) and I found it to be a great place to live.

It feels very pleasant once you get to know it.

Ooh, I've never been in any of those flats, but always thought I'd enjoy living there - glad to hear that you did enjoy it!

I have cycled to work past this ugly thing in Berlin: https://maps.app.goo.gl/9WQ6PZPg2U8XBzJo6

Although it actually fits quite right in the neighbourhood, which was wholly ruined by brutalist architects.

Some parts were built over beautiful Gründerzeit (industrial revolution more or less) tenement houses, which were demolished for this new "futuristic" district.

Not as attractive as those in the article, but still quite striking near me:

https://modernmooch.com/2018/08/19/trinity-united-reform-chu...

Somewhat terrifying when they light up the front in red at night.

Here's one in Madison WI, that was taken down and rebuilt in a more traditional style a few years ago.

https://isthmus.com/arts/goodbye-st-pauls/

Reminds me of this Buddhist monastery: https://architectureprize.com/winners/winner.php?id=6300

People might need interested in this Irish documentary

----

This film essay looks closely at a rupture, the demolition of a church in Dublin through a portrait of the building’s dismantling.

While the cultural meaning of the end of this building has been marked by its community through ritual events, this project comes from a new materialist perspective, drawing attention to the life of the fabric of the church. Produced in collaboration with architectural historian Ellen Rowley, and featuring oral interviews recorded in Finglas, the film points to questions of sustainability in architecture such as counting the embodied energy of this church. Tracing how materials were financed, grown and crafted, the project will provide scope for audiences to reflect on the life of the building itself, socially, culturally, and environmentally.

https://fiona-hallinan.com/Making-Dust

These remind me of styling in Raise by Wolves [0] of the Mithraic [1].

By the way, it's a great sci-fi show and I was very saddened when I heard HBO Max canceled it (during its transition to Max). I unsubscribed from them and I'm boycotting them due to this hostility.

[0]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9170108/

[1]: https://raised-by-wolves.fandom.com/wiki/Mithraic

In Los Angeles, CA, the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels is pretty brutalist:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Cathedral+of+Our+Lady+of+the+Angel...

https://www.olacathedral.org/overview

A favorite part of mine are the tapestries:

https://www.olacathedral.org/tapestries

Brutalism always makes me feel anxious and unsafe for some reason.

Interesting reaction. What's your thoughts on why when you delve into it?

Could be too personal to share no worries! Ha :) But I'm guessing because the lack of decoration, could be linked with lack of friendly consideration to the people about. And the blocky forms could seem imposing and gigantic versus human scale. Combined it could give the impression of something authoritarian, like a penitentiary or Orwellian government ministry building. You might be feeling uneasy about its obvious display of power.

All this makes me think: maybe they should remake the Pentagon in brutalist design. To, just, like...be really unobvious about it. Hahaha! :)

The first church in the article (second after the banner picture), "Santa Maria Immacolata"[0] has an important historical meaning.

It is located in the village of Longarone, which was completely wiped out in 1963 due to the disaster of the Vajont dam[1]. Tl;dr the dam should not have been built there because of the geology of the area, but they did anyway; an enormous piece of the mountain fell into the lake, causing a huge wave. Nearly 2000 people died.

The church was built as part of the rebuilding of the whole village.

[0] (Italian) https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_di_Santa_Maria_Immacola...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_Dam

Montreal has some great brutalist buildings, and there are few brutalist churches in the east-end of the island. I grew up with many buildings of this style and I must say I've grown fond of them. I know they are seen as cold, but they bring me warmth.

Some discussion 2 months ago [0](34 points, 15 comments) {Different source, same photos}

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39670217

Horrifying and monstrous.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/e1M3USiv5Uay2t9UA

I would add Catedral Metropolitana do Rio de Janeiro.

I want to read this article but the website has other ideas. Horrible UX and horrible ads (redundant, I know).

For what it's worth Andrex, gusto sucks ass. Their customer service sucks and is a sham.

Always glad to read I'm not alone! Horrendous company.

Google up images of Arka Kraków (or duckduckgo up), one of the famous brutalist churches in Poland

I'd hate to be in one in an earthquake.

No pipe organ in any of these?

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