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Comment by echoangle | Hacker News Reader

Is the author suggesting he’s not traveling to the US out of security concerns? Is that really a thing?

Indeed, the author is not alone. It may be subjective but there are worries one needs to reconcile when planning a trip to the US (both for work as well as private trips). It’s often that we choose another destination or “can we find a way to make this remotely”.

From https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/54450#discussi... :

"I'm Australian so I wont be attending either (I am not comfortable to enter the US due to a preexisting medical issue)."

That's the "Medical costs in the US are extremely high. You may need to pay up-front for medical assistance" part of the text.

I do not know if travel health insurance generally covers complications from a pre-existing condition, and as other mentioned, getting travel insurance which covers the US is already a special case.

The last time I was in the US, specifically in Seattle, there were two separate shootings within blocks of where I was at the time, and one at a bar an hour after I left it.

As an Australian, seeing it on the news the next mornings made me very, very uncomfortable.

I understand that these shootings are unlikely to ever involve me, and I’m not discomforted to the point that I won’t go back to the US, but it is worth understanding that gun crime in the US is seen as uncomfortable and concerning to many. That my US friends who were at the same venues with me were completely blasé about it left me a little nonplussed.

I think it's a hefty chunk of paranoia. The US is absolutely a non-issue unless you have previously pissed them off. This is the same for every country.

What is not is walking 30km in the middle of nowhere in Central Asia because you didn't have enough cash to pay the driver's bribe. Stuff like that is a far more realistic concern than the security border paranoia stuff that goes on. Know where you are going, plan ahead and stay out of obvious trouble. That applies everywhere. The US is not special.

(Incidentally when I got to the first town, the guy in the shop laughed at me and invited me in for tea and dinner on him and his wife and I got to learn all about their history under Russia - it's not all bad)

Apparently... of course, the threat of "mass casualty violence and terrorist attacks" is real, but you're probably still more likely to die in a plane crash while getting to the US (or in a car accident while there) than in a shooting or terrorist attack. And if you insist on only travelling to countries that have a lower level of violent crime than Australia, you probably won't get around much (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-c...)...

Oops, you forgot the other 2 travel advisories the author quoted in that part:

- "Violent crime is more common in the US than in Australia"

- "Medical costs in the US are extremely high. You may need to pay up-front for medical assistance"

I think some Americans don't realize that, outside of America, many people don't ever consider the risk of gun violence in their day-to-day lives, or owing thousands of dollars for visiting a hospital.

Actually, I specifically addressed the violent crime thing...

As for the medical costs - if you want to be on the safe side, you can (actually you should) get travel health insurance.

I've heard horror stories about hospitals not accepting insurance. Wouldn't want to be in a situation of being ill and having to pay more than I can earn in a lifetime.

They will accept it. The cover has to be specifically for US hospitals otherwise the insurer won't pay out and they know that and won't accept it. You have to avoid insurers who only cover certain providers as well.

You have to read your insurance contract and info sheet properly rather than go for the lowest price.

> As for the medical costs - if you want to be on the safe side, you can (actually you should) get travel health insurance.

Though you might need to get a US specific one. Mine contains a clause that specifically excludes the USA from coverage, and that’s not uncommon.

Every medical travel insurance I ever bought had a clause that it doesn't work in the US.

To be fair I've been to the US a few times and I've never been shot and I did end up in hospital and it was smooth as butter. Because I didn't hang around where I was likely to get shot and actually checked my insurance cover and had the cert on me.

Note I live in London and everyone tells me I'm going to get stabbed too and die from the pollution...

London's homicide rate is (roughly, depending on which source you use and year you take) about one-fifth of the average US homicide rate; you are safer in London than in almost anywhere in the US.

13 per million per year in London. 60 per million per year in New York.

That's an 0.006% chance of getting murdered killed in NY every year.

And that doesn't account for (a) putting yourself in a good position to get killed like being a gang member and (b) the aggregate reduction in risk by only travelling there.

We don’t actually consider that in the US either, you probably shouldn’t get your views of the US from Reddit or the Guardian.

I know several Americans who consider both of those things.

That second one needs to be pointed out in particular - the US healthcare system is so expensive that if you have healthcare insurance as a foreigner, they're typically excluded from the international plan. You have to specifically go out of your way (and pay more) to make your local health insurance cover the US.

Quite a few people don't want to deal with that.

The homicide rate in Australia is particularly low. But in terms of overall homicide rate the United States is higher than the vast majority of other developed countries, and indeed most developing countries.

Most of the world sees the United States as a dangerous country.

For example, using the source you've just given, the US homicide rate is over 5 times the homicide rate of the United Kingdom, France and Germany, and over 10 times that of Norway.

Granted, you're more likely to die in a car accident than to be murdered in the US, but that's no reassurance; this is partly because the vehicle accident mortality rate is so high in the US, at over four times the rate in the UK. And your comment about dying in a plane crash is completely wrong: the air travel mortality rate is very close to zero, with under 200 deaths for over 800 annual million air travellers; a rate of less than 0.025 per 100,000 per annum.

Yes, there are plenty of people who avoid travelling to the US

I know that, but I didn’t think it was because of security. I don’t think of the US as particularly dangerous, but maybe my perception is wrong…

The homicide rate is 8x Australia's, so yeah it is by comparison.

I know that US is vast, and there are millions of good places where one could feel safe, but I assure you, from the outside sometimes is seems you live in a mad max alternate universe

I’m from Europe, but I would have no problem going to a tech meeting with some google engineers in Silicon Valley.

It's the guns and the police.

People get angry or frightened. It's better for everyone else if they're not carrying a firearms at that point.

Policing a nation where everyone is armed means the police are heavily armed and the non-insane ones very frightened all the time. See above.

Worse than that, having a gun doesn't make you safer; it increases the risk to everyone in your household. But I can absolutely understand why fear drives people to own guns -- it's a vicious circle as increased gun ownership drives fear, which in turn drives even more gun purchases...

Homicide rate is 10x the rate of EU and over 30x the rate of Japan: https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/a...

Rape rate is about 3x the rate of EU: https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/crime_stats_oecdjan...

People killed by police (population adjusted) is about 30x the rate of Germany: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... https://polizeischuesse.cilip.de/?p=1&year=2023

Sure, but those rates are also really low. That’s a bit like saying you’re scared of using your car because a plane is much safer. The chance of getting hurt while visiting a meeting in Silicon Valley is still one in a million.

Likely out of ignorance of actual violent crime statistics.

Yes, this is a thing.

well... yes. I, for one, am slightly worried to go to the US.

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