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Comment by yieldcrv | Hacker News Reader

> The first [trial], in 2021, was declared a mistrial after prosecutors and their witnesses couldn't stop talking about sex trafficking despite none of the defendants facing sex trafficking charges

Thats always been my take on the backpage case, but I didnt feel comfortable talking about it because people are too emotionally invested in curbing sex trafficking

We’d be better off just treating it as labor trafficking, and not bothering with the non-trafficked people just like the rest of the job market.

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Estimated no one cares about labor trafficking. They care about other people having sex.

The irony of this being Arizona we're talking about and the significant contribution of illegal immigrants to the state economy.

Why is that ironic? Of course nobody will care about stopping labor trafficking if it benefits them.

> Of course nobody will care about stopping labor trafficking if it benefits them

Same with sex work it seems.

Sex work <> sex trafficking.

Yes, but casting anti-sex work measures as anti-sex trafficking measures has long been the propaganda norm.

The issue is that unlike cheap gardeners, where most of the population benefits and a small portion of the population loses (‘native’ gardeners - probably just a couple % of the labor force), approx. 51% of the population ‘loses’ with cheap sex work.

Which is why, in almost every jurisdiction, prostitution is illegal.

But since approx. 49% of the population ‘wins’, it is also why it still happens, just where it isn’t obvious.

why does 51% of the population 'lose' with cheap sex work?

I'm not understand what is unsaid here or is being assumed to have a shared understanding.

The vast majority of customers for sex workers (95%+?) are men, with the vast majority of workers being women.

51% of most populations are women, 49% are men.

Seems pretty obvious?

no, not obvious.

yes, the market for sex work is primarily men. of them, the vast majority are interested in heterosexual pairings from women providers.

can you finish articulating why women would be losing from cheap sex work? which women, the sex workers? a different group? what are each group losing specifically?

have you talked to any sex workers? many of them say they've gained something and I'm waiting to compare that with what you are trying to articulate

Bwahaha, have fun with that. I'm sure you'd never believe and/or would be shocked that those Latino dudes hanging out in 90% of Home Depot parking lots every morning (and getting picked up by contractors) DO NOT actually have valid work authorizations and/or US Citizenship. Not usually Mexicanos though, despite the stereotype. Same with 50-90%+ of drywallers, framers, etc. at least in the US west/south (depending on exact metro area).

And as long as it isn't too big of a hot button topic at the moment, no one does anything about it either. There will be an occasional 'whack a mole' action when it does become a hot button, then it goes back to being ignored.

Since homeowners and businesses 'win' and low value blue collar labor 'loses', not likely to change either until Labor starts getting organized again.

In any trade, someone always gets something for something. Market effects, who gets what for how much, etc. are what I’m talking about.

I appreciate the analogy, they compare dissimilar things with a common attribute.

What was the common attribute? Can you finish articulating what was asked?

Is it difficult for you to talk about sex work and women? Because I would like to have that conversation, it was an interesting prompt

I used to be an EMT. I’ve known folks from all walks of life.

You’re better off just reading some of the existing studies and materials though, there are a ton, if you’re curious. Plenty of blogs from sex workers near as I can tell too.

Also, near as I can tell, plenty of blue collar workers who wished they could get away with working in that industry!

It isn’t just ‘sex work and women’ after all.

They care about people being forced to engage in sex. Many people are trafficked into doing something they do not want to do by a partner or someone they think cares about them (look at the Andrew Tate situation).

After this comment I finally looked up Andrew Tate on wikipedia and was surprised to discover he has not actually been convicted of sex trafficking yet. Had the impression he had been... commenting in case it surprises anyone else.

Well, you can’t convict him if he’s not in the US. He’s been hiding in Romania the past few years.

The Romanian authorities indicted him. The surprise is that the Romanian authorities havent convicted him

amusing “default US” moment

Right, and they abuse anti-trafficking laws as a way to punish people for having sex.

The US and states have very active labor trafficking investigations, raids, busts, outreach, you name it. There are deep investigations many into outfits quite regularly, involving the FBI and other agencies. If it feels the opposite, it turns out we just have a large labor trafficking problem, which includes adult services/entertainment.

I can’t tell if you’re saying that sex trafficking doesn’t exist, isn’t a problem or that people don’t care about it. All positions are bonkers, but which one?

they’re saying that “downgrading” the enforcement approach of sex trafficking to just labor trafficking would mean all the enforcement and task forces go away

which I disagree with

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