Most Tech Jobs Are Jokes and I Am Not Laughing
ludic.mataroa.blog
ludic.mataroa.blog
I'm in Sydney, and Lest We Forget.
"It has become exceedingly clear to me that the average company is not a suitable environment for someone that cares about the craft of programming."
I'm not in a position to do this topic justice as it's a too big a subject to cover in a post such as this. Nevertheless, l'd extend that statement to include essentially any craft or expertise. Companies have profit as their primary objective and this rarely fits well with the specifics of one's craft or expertise.
The worst case comes when the stated objectives of the company or organization (what it does to make money) are very different to those of the employee's skills. For instance, the employee is employed in some technical area of a company that has nothing to do with technology such as banking, finance, the arts and various government bureaucracies.
My worst job was working for a government bureaucracy that had nothing to do with technology, it was soul destroying and horrible. As head of a technical department I found myself continually embroiled in matters that had nothing to do with what my department actually did, and trying to explain what my staff actually did in ways senior management could understand was a fruitless exercises—one may as well have tried to teach a dog calculus.
What was so frustrating was that I was in a secure position and that the only escape meant I would have to ditch tenure and security, which is eventually what I did.
> My worst job was working for a government bureaucracy that had nothing to do with technology, it was soul destroying and horrible. As head of a technical department I found myself continually embroiled in matters that had nothing to do with what my department actually did, and trying to explain what my staff actually did in ways senior management could understand was a fruitless exercises—one may as well have tried to teach a dog calculus.
In my opinion, for such a situation it would make sense for the management to apply a more hands-off approach with respect to managing the technical employees. If you don't understand what they are doing, employ great people that you trust and let them do their technical things in a rather hands-off way.
It's when things go wrong as they sometimes do, and mainly when users screw up using the services—no matter how much has been plowed into training—that it comes unstuck.
Management wants assurances that services will be more reliable but they don't have the interest or understanding to be helpful, this lack of understanding manifests as insufficient budgets and etc.
So what does one do? Well aware of C.P. Snows' two cultures problem, I hire consultants who are at arm's length to (a) check my operation is working efficiently (and it passes AOK), and (b) to explain matters to management (it's more detailed than that but you get the gist).
Did that help? Well, essentially no it didn't, if management isn't really interested in resolving matters and or takes precious little interest in what its technical departments and staff do then one is essentially stymied. One either puts up with matters or gets out. I opted for the latter.
> In my opinion, for such a situation it would make sense for the management to apply a more hands-off approach with respect to managing the technical employees. If you don't understand what they are doing, employ great people that you trust and let them do their technical things in a rather hands-off way.
As much as I want to contribute to FOSS I have kids to take care of, and want to parent. While I’m not star dev, I am certainly competent.
1. You don't care what others think.
2. GitHub is trying to be social media.
3. Lots of code is useless because it serves as some specific compatibly for an ad hoc process that someone a long time ago automated wrong.
4. Publishing code to GitHub requires effort in making it look readable to someone who isn't doing what you're doing.
5. If you don't do #4, you'll clutter up search results for others, which is literally a disservice to open source.
Also, public repos are for getting lots of people to work together for the good of the project's utility. Making them public for others' plaudits is literally the worst thing to happen to open source development.
Save the vanity for Facebook. We're trying to solve problems here.
Are you sure that's what you want to say to me as a closing comment? That's a terrible conclusion, and it paints you in a very unflattering light.
Try reading it like this: We can save the vanity for Facebook...
Or like this: I'd save the vanity for Facebook...
Or: Job seekers should save the vanity for Facebook...
I'm guessing you filled in the blank like this: Mariusor, you need to save the vanity for Facebook...
Always assume the best intentions. Hard to do in text.
Let me know if I'm missing your meaning.
But there's more than a hint of narcissism in the writing. Which is incredibly toxic to work with, because every interaction becomes less about solving problems and more about aggressive assertions of dominance and superiority.
On the upside, if he's as smart as he wants to be, he'll be able to solve his problem.
I'm not saying the author is like that, but he might be.
They would like to work in a better context with such people.
They are discouraged by the quagmire of the low quality cold interview swamp.
I don’t see narcissistic flags here, and I have had significant experiences with that category of person. Unfortunately.
The irreverent gallows humor seems to be throwing some people off. But that is often a creative person’s tactic for maintaining a light mood in casual (not professional) contexts, despite rough circumstances.
(Narcissism isn’t being off putting, difficult, unpleasant, objectionable, etc. It is as important to not overapply that concept as it is to recognize it. It is usually not immediately obvious, as they are often image conscious and exude charm. Unless they have a secure power imbalance, or you are socially irrelevant to what they care about.)
Edit: Gender neutral language
The really ‘fun’ folks are when you never see any confusion, because they ‘know’ they couldn’t fail - they ‘know’ you’re conspiring to destroy them using whatever tricks they tend to use, and have no doubts about it. Regardless of how absurd or illogical that would be.
And then the sabotage, manipulation, gaslighting, triangulation, false accusations, outright attacks, etc. start. With no remorse, because in their eyes they’re the victim and are just being ‘fair’.
That’s when document, document, document, and better hope you’ve got real power and a way to back it up, or you’re going to have a hard time. Probably even then. Because yes, they’re exhausting.
It’s offputting that someone can’t control well what they say in public. It’s okay to talk shit in private, it’s natural —but making it public in such a voice is offputting.
There are many hilarious stories from the tech support trenches that are well written, captivating, without descending into the badmouthing trap.
One that I recall is a kid who worked like a house call Genius Bar in the Chicago loop neighborhood or thereabouts, it was funny, witty storytelling about the mias entires he suffered, but never shat on people.
I'm fairly confident that OP is safe here.
I like it very much. I would probably hire this person.
Yea, this guy sounds pleasant. Would love to work with him.
But seriously, I don't understand how people can appreciate this level of toxicity.
It’s a very different style of work where politeness, ego, and professionalism weren’t factors. The only focus was the tech and ensuring it was moving as efficiently as possible. You could really push things in whatever direction you needed as long as you had the metrics to show it was better.
I disagree that it’s inherently rude or aggressive. You can absolutely tell someone they’re a moron in a very polite and joking way, but it clearly won’t translate into writing very well.
As for crass, yeah definitely ¯\ _(ツ)_/¯
You guys realize this person wrote a blog post about not being able to find a job, right?
"This toxic personality is so refreshing? But why can't he find a job?"
What a mystery.
Understand what? This guy is contributing to horrible environments, not just a victim.
Why are do so many tech people have such low agency?
Sounds like a low-EQ environment. I'm perfect, every issue is someone else's.
If you’re hungry, restless and the IT industry culture status quo shock is too great to stomach, migrating to US (managed to work across both continents for a bit of perspective) is pretty much the only option :(
I don't know them, but I love this person. Very Douglas Adams-esque writing style, too.
For example, there's a strain of British person whose pride and self-identity is somehow tied up in enjoying very long brews with just a dash of milk. These people are likely to prefer teas with very strong flavours in the blend, such as Assam. Then there are people who enjoy subtle flavours. They might prefer Twinings Everyday which includes leaves from Yunnan.
The author of this post is no Arthur Dent.
Usually any given country will have one big spot for tech and in some countries even there will be a bit crappy. My guess is that Melbourne is not a very good spot.
It's not an unreasonable assumption, but in this case it's incorrect. Sydney has more tech work, but only in proportion to its larger size.
That said, Melbourne tech work is very heavily (but not exclusively) orientated around finance, insurance, real estate and so on which is not everyone's cup of tea.
I've clocked ~40 years in Australian tech and managed to avoid all of those domains, web development, cubicle farms, and nearly (but not quite) office politics.
Could be why I still have all my hair and good health.
If you just mean in regards to stress, then working tech at an insurance company is a pretty low-stress job from my experience.
Finance can be pretty low-stress too in certain sectors. Like I've been working for a wealth management and investment analysis company, and haven't worked more than a 40 hour work week in years, with lots of flexibility during work to go to appointments or run errands, and while we have sprints, they're very malleable, and the real deadlines are more on a quarterly level, and they try to be conservative with their quarterly goals to make sure they hit them.
Now if you meant as far as life fulfillment? Yeah I get that. But I at least have some other things outside of work I can pursue.
I've even managed to squeeze in some work on Cayley|Magma in Sydney (long ago) which is kind of fun as it still seems relevant today, being used to crack Quantum crypto candidates.
I've had burst of planes, trains, and automobiles with a lot of travel about the globe, which I've enjoyed, and long stretches of working from home since I started in the 1980s .. circles and arrows on the back of envelopes, coding and then working in sheds, building etc.
Doesn't work as a lifestyle for everyone but it has for me.
I am working from an office, but at least it's a home office. I can crack a window for fresh air, and look out at the prairie beyond my backyard from my office window. When the weather is nicer I sometimes start the work day out on the patio.
The interviews will generally be with the founding team for early stage startups, but even for a startup heading into series A, you'll still probably meet with the C-suite for culture fit. If you get into an interview, it's almost always high on engagement because the team is small and the mission doesn't lose fidelity through layers of management (why this role? why now? what problems are being solved for? what type of candidate is a best fit?)
His posts show up occasionally on HN. I find his cynical/humorous style great for seeing things from a different point of view - It's a breath of fresh air.
For public job posts 9 months is reasonable to find the right (or closest to that) job. 5 interviews sounds like you're not really looking. I'm not sure if that's how many you had. But, 45 interviews sounds more reasonable for getting a good selection of jobs to choose from.
The largest fish in the lake isn't likely to be the first one you catch on your first visit. Though, sometimes luck hands you a short journey.
>None of their engineering staff have anything visible on their GitHub accounts
Maybe they aren't seeking attention? Do yourself a favor; if you have some GitHub profile photo that looks like a dating site, take it down. No one cares and most people find that annoying. That's especially true at smaller companies where leadership is easier to achieve, as is higher pay.
I hope you find the right gig. Wish you the best of luck.
That's all a bunch of bullshit numbers but you get the idea. It's a lot more work to get a good job than most people think.
I'm trying to paint a clear picture. I have an enjoyable job. Enviable even. When I hear people bitch about 5 interviews with no good offers, I feel bad for them. The expectation needs to be that this is the case. The solution is to adjust expectations to match reality. If you're trying to say it's hard to get a job, I agree. I'm going further. It's way harder than you think. But it's not impossible. I did it. Most people did it.
And we all complained the whole way too.
Add skills to your offerings. Change career paths.
Start by looking at what people are hiring for and who is making money. You can find statistics from tax agencies, government labor departments, etc.
Good luck.
From the various feedback I got, it seems that while remote US is rather common nowadays, remote non-US (by a US company) it's really not. And having worked for a US company in the past few years, it's really hard to change after that.
:sigh:
I recommend just walking into places that look interesting to work at and literally giving them your resume in person. Granted, I haven't done that since pre-covid, but it used to work well. I'd sometimes walk in and then just turn around (could tell immediately it wasn't a place I wanted to work). Sometimes, I'd get invited to lunch and get a job offer before the day was over. Granted, that was pre-covid, so in the days of hybrid/remote work, this probably doesn't work as well.
Anyway, finding a job is shit. This I totally agree with.
And this line was too much for me: <<Leave the technology space>>
Oh yeah, and do what? Oh, something that pays much less, or doesn't come with a cushy office job. Since you have PR in Australia, how about driving heavy equipment in a remote mine in Western Aus? I hear that they make a minimum of 100K AUD per year, but your life is hell -- fly in and fly out weekly. Suddenly, your cushy office job working for the CEO's son making 100K AUD doesn't sound so bad.
In terms of pure prose, this line is a gem:
> For the inevitable person that gets upset that I haven't settled for less, I invite them to try painting themselves brown and working in Malaysia to simulate my early career.
Also - who does this?
> so I call their front desk to get ahold of the person that's listed on the job application, and then it all gets weird.
When I joined just after COVID we were working from the office 5 days a week. I'd been working remotely for nearly a decade so thought it would be a welcome change, but oh man, I completely forgot about all the office BS you need to deal with. Eventually they realised that policy made hiring people hard, as now everyone expects to WFH, so they now allow is to work from home 1 day a week. Over Christmas and New Year they were so grateful for all our hard work, that they allowed us to work from home for 2 days a week. That was literally all we got for Christmas.
For the past few months I've been looking for a more chilled out job. I have a family now, and have gone past the point of seeing any purpose or fulfilment in my work. I just want to clock in, do my 8 hours, then leave at the end of the day and switch to family mode. The biggest issue for me has been recruiters ghosting me. I have an interview that goes well then at the end I hear "I'll be in touch by the end of play tomorrow" and don't hear anything back. Or recruiters message me on LinkedIn, I reply saying "yes I'm willing to torture myself with your interview process. Can you call me tomorrow afternoon?" and then I don't hear anything back.
Like OP most of the jobs I've had are through my network, or from recruiters reaching out to me during times when anyone with a heartbeat could get a senior React position. Sometimes I wonder, am I just a bad engineer? Am I just terrible at selling myself?
The best job I ever had was also with a team that had funny shaped keyboards - it's how I learned Vim. We would stay after work to play video games, and go out for drinks as a team once or twice a week. We worked hard, but it didn't feel like work. I'd love to find that again, but nothing has even come close. I don't know if it's just that I was young or naive and "the grass is always greener" when looking back, or that I have now been infected with the cyninism that capitalism breeds.
(And for anyone wondering, I - and I assume OP is the same - do not talk like this to others, and especially not in an interview. My cynicism stays in my head)
For my own part I greatly prefer smaller companies and startups. I honestly don’t believe they are really that much more volatile than bigger companies (see layoffs) and I abhor the “process over progress” mentality at larger companies. That along with layers and layers of bureaucracy to get anything done. At a smaller company I have a direct impact and there is simply no room for people who aren’t competent.
Side note: “Competent” is high praise in my book. Most people don’t meet that bar IMHO. I am not, nor am I looking for “10x” developers. I’m looking for people that care, can learn what they need to learn, can think critically, and can work well on a team with others.
I have numerous other complaints with the blog post, not least of which being annoyed that employees at companies the author looked at didn’t have GitHub activity. Not everyone programs in their free time. I mean, I do but I know many extremely competent people who don’t. Judging a company by that seems silly.
I got my current job through HN (in 2019) and I’m currently hiring others using HN and have managed to find a number people who are working their way through the interview process (side note: contact me if you are in the US and want to work with PHP/Quasar/Vue). It’s not easy work but it’s working and I’d bet it’s working better than using an incompetent conman, I’m sorry, I think the common term is “recruiter” or something like LinkedIn/Indeed.
Yes, trying to get a job without using your network is more difficult but it not impossible either. That said, I have no clue what it’s like in Melbourne, maybe it’s different there. I’ll end with this: it’s just silly to drink shitty tea just so you can complain about it.
> The recruiter calls me the next day to inform me that my question prompted them to close the role, and re-open a new one at the junior level because they only needed a ClickOps monkey.
They actually learned? Thats not too bad. Sure, theyre ignorant about many other things, but learning is important.
That said, this guy sounds really full of himself. I suspect it must transpire.
> (though the work seemed like more of the "present yourself as a cog in some vast, soulless machinery" stuff I already get
So this guy is a cog and wants "leadership" roles. Cant get them, blames other peoples social skills. Cool story bro.
I think your coworkers or customers as an electrician, carpenter, or car mechanic wouldn't be as polite as your IT colleagues at taking your bullshit.